The Wisconsin Investor
Each week, we bring you interviews with some of Wisconsin's top real estate investors who share their tips, tricks, and strategies that you can implement right away. This show is dedicated to helping Wisconsin real estate investors elevate their game. Along with interviews, I'll also dive into hot topics in solo episodes and feature experts from various real estate sectors across Wisconsin.
The Wisconsin Investor
Flip Your Way to Six Figures: From Stuck Condo to Green Bay Profit
We trace Jennie Buah’s path from an underwater condo to a six-figure flip in Green Bay’s Indian Trails, spotlighting the mindset, systems, and financing stack that turned overwhelm into action. This episode breaks down how she built confidence, raised private money, and learned to move fast — even when the numbers weren’t perfect yet.
Inside this episode:
💥 Massive imperfect action as a repeatable habit
🏠 Learning at RIAs without drowning in acronyms
🚪 Walking open houses to build rehab and cost intuition
🧰 Using contractors to validate budgets and scope
🤝 Making flexible offers that solve sellers’ real problems
💸 Leveraging bridge loans and HELOCs for speed and runway
🏦 Using DSCR loans to refinance unbankable deals
📊 Tracking interest, fees, and holding costs with discipline
💬 Building trust to raise private money ethically
🔁 Preparing multiple exit strategies for shifting ARVs
Jennie’s story is proof that progress beats perfection — and that consistent, informed action compounds into confidence and capital.
If this episode helps you take your next step, please share it, rate it, and leave a quick review.
⭐ Every rating helps us reach more Wisconsin investors and get closer to our goal of 100 episodes built by real people doing real deals.
Hey everybody, welcome back to another episode of the Wisconsin Investor. I'm your host, Corey Raymond, and I'm super duper excited for today's episode, and I'll tell you why here in just a second. As I do on every episode, though, guys, I always bring you our sponsor, and we've been doing this over 60 episodes now. Surprisingly, it's been the same sponsor for all 60 episodes. Okay, maybe not surprising, but it's Wisconsin Discount Properties. Woo-hoo! Anyway, one of the reasons we uh talk about this every single week is because so many of you guys listening to this are wanting to grow your real estate businesses, whether that's in flips or rentals or rent to own or Airbnbs or whatever the case is. And basically every single week, Wisconsin Discount Properties is putting off-market deals at a discount into your inbox. So it's a great opportunity for you to pick up deals without having to fight people on the MLS and go through all the crazy stuff of trying to negotiate back and forth with realtors and all that kind of thing. You can just put in your offer. If you get it, you get a property and bada boom, bada bang, easy peasy, make some money on it. And our team at Wisconsin Discount Properties is here to help you try to make as much money as possible on those deals. So we really want to be a resource for you. So if you haven't contacted anybody on our team yet or you're not on our buyers list, just go to Wisconsin Discount Properties.com, put your information in, and somebody on our team will be reaching out to you to get you rolling and help you make a bunch more money going into next year, 2026. We're gonna make it your best year ever. But you gotta be on the list to make that happen. So with that, let's get into today's episode. So I have an amazing guest with us today. She just started working with Wisconsin Discount Properties at the time of recording, a week and a half ago. But I have known Jenny for quite a while. So I have Jenny Boo with us, and she is a big force out there. If you guys are part of the Whisco Rhea Network at all, she runs the Green Bay Whisco Rhea, and um she's an awesome resource. We're so excited to have her on the team. A lot of reasons for it. But Jenny, we'll I I won't steal all your thunder. I'll let you do it. Yeah, I don't want to take it all away. I want to let you be able to share a little bit. But how are you doing today? Are you ready to talk some real estate?
SPEAKER_02:And I sure am. Thanks for having me, Corey.
SPEAKER_00:Absolutely. This is gonna be a lot of fun. So tell everybody, just take us back to like when did you get started in in real estate and how how did that all kind of come to fruition?
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, yeah. Um, so it came at actually started in 2012. So my husband then and I purchased our first condo in Madison in 2007.
SPEAKER_01:Okay.
SPEAKER_02:And in 2012, I was changing jobs and looking around the country at you know, different jobs that I could have. But, you know, because we purchased in 2007, we were actually underwater on that condo for a few years, right? So I like I err on the side of transparency. I really want people to know kind of the honest truth about what happens, right? So we were thinking about moving around the country, and we didn't have enough to be able to bring money to the table to sell that condo. So we were trying to figure out what to do, and I remember exactly it was December 27th because I was in my parents' house for Christmas, and we decided to list the property on Craigslist of all places.
SPEAKER_00:Correct.
SPEAKER_02:This is when Craigslist was still the thing in 2012.
SPEAKER_00:Yep.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah. Um, so we listed it for rent, and I downloaded a lease from the internet and a hope and a prayer. I didn't, I knew nothing about nothing at this point.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah.
SPEAKER_02:And within just a couple days, we already had it rented for February 1st. And we said, oh shoot, what are we supposed to do now? So we quickly drove around town and found a little one-bedroom apartment on the second floor of a pizza place. So we moved into that apartment to be a little bit more nimble in our career searches while we rented out this condo.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah.
SPEAKER_02:And that caught that got me, you know, catching the real estate investment bug from there. So that was 2012. Um at that point, I started going to the Madison RIA. We were living in Madison.
SPEAKER_01:Okay.
SPEAKER_02:And I don't actually know if that one was part of the Whiskel RIA at the time. I don't remember the exact timeline. Uh, but I was maybe 25, 24, 25. And I got really overwhelmed, like severely overwhelmed in those rooms, right? There were acronyms flying everywhere, terms I didn't understand. Um, and so I was there, I was going, but you know, it felt like something a little out of reach, right? So any of you coming to the the RIA meetings, like if you feel that way, ask for help, right? Because there are so many things people talk about in those meeting rooms that they don't they don't remember what it's like to be a newbie. So they're talking in terms and industry terms and acronyms, and they forget that there are people that don't fully understand the conversations yet.
SPEAKER_00:So 100%.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah. So I actually I chickened out.
SPEAKER_00:Really?
SPEAKER_02:I yes, I backed out of investment real estate for a few years for a number of different reasons, right? I was traveling corporate at that time. I started to have my family, so I was a stay-at-home mom for a little while. Um, and you know, that takes some of your your extra money. For sure. You have to focus that in different places.
SPEAKER_01:Yep.
SPEAKER_02:Um, but when we moved up here back, this is where I'm originally from. So I returned back home to Northeast Wisconsin. And when we moved back here in 2018, I started to get more serious about real estate again. I never lost sight of it. I kept learning about it. I kept reading and listening to podcasts and you know, getting involved a little bit. So when in 2018, when we moved back up here, I pretty immediately started to search for other RIAs because I was feeling the itch to get out and do more things. And I found the investor network here to be so incredibly supportive. And they just, I mean, so many people just poured into me. Um, but especially the co-host that I work with now in the Green Bay Wisco Rhea, Joe Gracioni. Um, he just took me under his wing and didn't let me quit and just, you know, kept cheering me on. And that kind of network that we have here in Northeast Wisconsin really has propelled me over the last seven years to, you know, set my strong footing in real estate investments up here.
SPEAKER_00:That is awesome. So there's a couple things I want to go back to a little bit. You talked about the 2012, you're underwater on this on this condo, you're not really sure what to do, but you're like, hey, massive imperfect action. That's what we call it, right?
SPEAKER_02:Exactly. We didn't even think about it. I think we just had our own the old listing photos from when we purchased the place. I think I just stole those and used them.
SPEAKER_00:But that's what one of the things I think that's really helpful for people to listen to is like I I worked at a company prior to getting into real estate and we did sales and whatever. We were all worked from home, but there was a group of us that all were in in the Green Bay area. And there was a gentleman that worked with us, and like I was starting to get into real estate investing while we were working there, and and we'd always be talking, like, we were always scheming how to get out of our nine to five, right? Like we're like, we love we loved the company we worked for, but like the hours were a grind, and it was like the work life balance wasn't great. And um, I'm like, well, dude, I'm doing this real estate thing, right? And it eventually it blossomed into what we now have at Wisconsin Discount Properties relatively quickly, and I was out of my job within like a year and a half of doing this. And I remember he was like, right that we started researching and doing this stuff at the same time. I just took massive imperfect action and I was like, I'm I'm getting out of here as quickly as I can. And he still, to this day, like a decade later, has not bought a deal, still researching, still analyzing, still in analysis paralysis, still trying jumping job to job, trying to figure things out. And I'm I feel bad for him, love the guy. But I just think what you did there is a great example of sometimes it's not always gonna work out, but if you don't take the action, you're never gonna know. And you can learn and research and listen to podcasts like this, you know, we're 60-some episodes in. If you started listening to episode one and you still haven't done a deal yet, like sometimes you just gotta take that leap. You know, now you did massive imperfect action and then you paused for quite a while and you did a lot of the research, but then you got back into it. And I think that's okay too, right? Everybody's timing and things are gonna be different. But I think sometimes, like, if you're on the fence and you're like, I gotta, I want to do this, I want to do it. Sometimes you just gotta take that massive imperfect action, just kind of figure it out as you go.
SPEAKER_02:Mm-hmm. Absolutely. And it doesn't have to be risking a hundred thousand dollars of your own money on a flip, right? Right. I mean, that massive imperfect action, I feel like you have to work your way up to courage for that. Um, but there are different levels of diving boards, right? You don't have to go to the very tall one first.
SPEAKER_00:Right, exactly. Yeah, I would say don't go buy uh, you know, an apartment building with your first deal if you don't know what you're doing, right? If you haven't done your research or don't have your education, but yeah, I think there's like kind of a level that you can step up to. And that's why I encourage everybody, you know, at the start of this, hey, just get on the buyer's list. Step one, right? Start getting deals coming in, start analyzing deals. Call us, we'll go through the deals with you and say, here's what here's what you're missing, here's what you're not missing. Go to the go to the Wisco Rio. We have a group called the REI Success Club. Come out to that. We meet every month, great groups of people there. If you're in Madison or whatever, another there's networking opportunities all over the place, right? People who want to help, but you gotta put yourself out there a little bit and take that massive imperfect action. And sometimes for some people out there, that massive imperfect action is just getting to one of these meetups. That's scary, that's scary enough, right?
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, and so when I started again in 2018, I did start to go to a lot of the different meetups. One of the other things that I did though, speaking of massive imperfect action, is trying to get myself out into the field to do some of that analysis too. Because I did get on buyers lists and I did start doing looking at the numbers on different properties and running, learning how to run numbers at scale, though. Like I I wasn't going to make an offer until I ran a hundred analyses, right? Oh, to make sure I knew kind of what was what was going on and how to run the numbers and do it quickly. Like I wanted to be able to run numbers within 30 minutes. And I went for gosh, probably six or nine months. I went to every open house I could find. Because I didn't want to waste people's, you know, realtors' times. Like there are realtors that will help you as an investor learn how to do it. But I mean, I didn't, I don't want to waste their time. So I can just get into open houses and learn how to walk properties. It didn't even have to be an investment property, it could just be a regular on-market$300,000 turnkey property. But I was walking properties with or without my kids in tow. Like that's okay. So you just go to an open house and say, I'm not here to buy, I'm just here to look. I'll only be here for a few minutes. So the realtor isn't, you know, wasting any time on you. But take notes and make sure you go back and do your analysis. But get into houses.
SPEAKER_00:That's such a great point, Jenny. So one of the things uh I I've said on multiple episodes here, when we came up with our process at Wisconsin Discount Properties, I wanted to make it as easy as possible for people to analyze a deal and the amount of time it takes them to scroll on the toilet instead of sitting on Facebook. Yes, they can they could be analyzing a deal, right? That was ultimately like what I was thinking of like instead of sitting on your phone looking on Facebook, why not make you know 25 grand while you're sitting there and analyze a deal? But to your point, there's a level of comfort that you have to get to to be able to know your numbers. And I I've never heard anybody say what you just said, Jenny. So I think for those of you guys out there listening, that's a huge nugget Jenny just dropped. Getting that experience and getting into these properties and at least just run in numbers. Now, did you take contractors with you or anything like that at any point? Or did you just go through and you know call people questions, or how did that work?
SPEAKER_02:No, I did. At one point there was a list floating around. I don't know where it ended up, but there was a list of general contractors that I called and asked if they would walk properties with me. I paid them for their time. Um I didn't just I didn't just expect them to come and do it for free. Um, and it would only be I only asked for that on the properties that I intended to put an offer on. So I would have already gone to an open house and then I was interested in it. So I knew that I wasn't gonna waste their time. And then I would ask a contractor to come with me. But what I always did on that was ask them, like I compared my numbers with theirs. So I could see this is what I already had prepared myself with. This is what I saw. Yeah, what do you see? And how can I bridge that gap? And how did I not see that? And how can I continue to learn? And what are your costs? What did I think the costs were? I mean, I spent so much time looking at their costs, my costs, going to Home Depot, going to Lowe's, going to any different place you can you can go to for you know these rehab numbers, I spent so much time building up what I thought was, you know, my walkthrough list and spreadsheet.
SPEAKER_00:That's awesome. So when you were walking through prior to the contractor, what where were you coming up with these numbers or like things you thought needed to be done? And then were you bouncing that off of people or like what was your were you just trying to get in and just get eyeballs and and and yourself into these properties, or what was happening with the ones that you didn't have the contractors on?
SPEAKER_02:Yeah. So that's part of what I asked for when I was networking with people in the the RIAs. So anytime I would find people that I knew did rehabs, whether it's flips or just you know, rehabs on their own properties, I would say, Do you have any spreadsheets that you use or any, you know, numbers that you would be willing to share with me about what it costs you to do these rehabs? And a few people shared them. Um and then, you know, there are tools online, you know, Bigger Pockets has some like that. There's a there are a couple other tools online that you can use. And I just sort of consolidated those all together as a starting place and then just you know massaged it from there based on what contractors told me, eventually what my projects ended up being as well.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah.
SPEAKER_02:Because what I have found is that one person's spreadsheet doesn't mean it's gonna work for you. Everybody has a different style of rehab, and you know, the the type of kitchen that they're gonna do may or may not be the type of kitchen that I do. So you do have to take those templates with a grain of salt.
SPEAKER_00:For sure. I know one thing that we used to do early on when I had Wisconsin discount properties is I would put rehab, like, here's what I would do to the property, right? And I would put my rehab estimate in there. And two things happened. One, I realized I was shooting myself in the foot because I did this once on a rental property before I really owned rentals. And one of the guys is like, I was like, I would do the windows, and this is what it's gonna cost to do the windows. And I was trying to make it, again, as easy as possible for my buyers so that I'd take all the guesswork out of it. But then they're like, Oh, I would never do the windows on this. This is just a rental property for me. And I'm like, dang it, I just planted the seed of like 10 grand of expenses I didn't need to, right? Exactly. And then on the on the flip side to what you're saying is like some people are gonna plan on using it as a rehab so or as a rental. That's gonna be a different level of rehab than somebody who's planning to flip it and send it, sell it to an end buyer. So there's different levels there. So for me to say, well, this is gonna be 25 grand, I'm like, uh I don't know what your contractor costs is, I don't know what you're planning to do to it.
SPEAKER_02:If there's been tickets that are quotes, some people hire it out. It's just it's impossible to know.
SPEAKER_00:Exactly. Talk about like what's been your most successful deal, Jenny. Can you can you talk about one of maybe one of the deals that you've had that was like an absolute slam dunk for you?
SPEAKER_02:Oh yeah. Um, there was one actually in Indian Trails in the Green Bay area. Oh so that is a it's a higher-end neighborhood. And I actually found almost all my deals so far I have found through networking.
SPEAKER_01:Okay.
SPEAKER_02:So this was brought to me by a realtor whose previous client called and said that they had a house they didn't know what to do with. And she went in there and took a look at it and realized that it it was not marketable, it wasn't able to be put on the MLS. So she, being the good realtor who that she is, called up some of her investor friends, including me. Uh, and I walked through it and uh we went actually straight back. So it was, you know, I was walking through it with the family, the family was there. Uh, we went straight back to their kitchen table and the quintessential sitting down at the kitchen table looking through the contracts, and we we came to an agreement on my purchase price. The deal with that one, so the clincher with that one is that they had so it was a mother who passed away, and then a 70-year-old daughter who was still living there.
SPEAKER_01:Wow.
SPEAKER_02:And the 70-year-old daughter needed to move into assisted living, but she was on the waiting list to be able to get into there. And she didn't have another place to go, right? She she wanted to stay in the house until she had another place to go. So she was looking for an investor that was willing to be flexible with her. So I worked out a deal with them where I would let her rent back from me. So she essentially became a tenant for six months. So from June until December, she was a tenant living there. It was, you know, six-month lease. I needed her out by December because then I wanted to start the work on the inside of the property. But in the meantime, they allowed me to do the exterior work. So while she was living there, I was taking out 18 trees and putting down sod and doing all sorts of things. Um, but we got the exterior work done before the snow fell. And then she moved out right after Christmas, and I was able to do the interior work to get it listed in the spring. Um so that I mean, that turned into a nice, not only a good learning experience for me, it was a big project, you know, lots of exterior work, full interior work. Um, but it also was a really good learning experience for me on how to be flexible and really solve problems for your sellers. Uh, because the realtor had brought in, you know, a couple other investors who were not willing to be flexible with that and they laughed out on this deal.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah. Yeah. And that's, I think a couple good points there, Jenny. So in our business, what we do, right, when we're negotiating these contracts for Wisconsin discount properties, a lot of times it's not money that people care about. And I know when I've talked to some realtor people in the past about like they, you know, investors sometimes get this bad stigma out there with realtors, right? They like think we're the scum of the earth, ambulance chaser, dah dah, dah, dah.
SPEAKER_02:I am one, so I get it.
SPEAKER_00:Right. But on the flip side of that, like what we do all the time is we're just really trying to solve problems. Like, you know, if if price was the most important thing to people, everybody would have a flip phone with no data, right? We'd all be driving, you know, 2001 Saturns, right? And that have 200,000 miles on it because price is the most important thing, right? And for some reason in real estate, a lot of realtor people I've talked to, or people who are are not in a situation where they're gonna sell to an investor, right? Like for them to wrap their brain around what investors do and what you know that we are really solving a lot of people's problems, that we have good hearts and good intentions, right? Is they don't realize that money is not the most important thing to everybody. There's a lot of other things like trading a car in, you know. Why would anybody trade a car in?
SPEAKER_02:Right.
SPEAKER_00:It's speed and convenience, right? And it's the same thing in our business. You you solved her problem. Her problem was I've got this house, I need time to get in. I don't know when it's gonna be, but I need time to get in there and I need somebody who can work with me on this timeline. And yeah, pr price is a factor, but it's not the most important thing, right?
SPEAKER_02:Right, exactly. And I've actually been on the receiving end of needing that assistance too. So my very first attempt at this more creative investment world up here, I bought a house in O'Connell Falls and I did a rent to own on that one. And uh the person I was renting to own with decided not to exercise the option. And so I went up there. And to be fair, you know, I hadn't been there in a while, and this was absolutely my fault for not visiting the property for a little bit. So I'm not afraid to admit that. Um, but I found probably$40,000 or$50,000 worth of rework that needed to happen. And I wasn't in the financial position to be able to do that rehab right then. So I reached out to a wholesaler as well and was like, hey, can you help me find a buyer for this? Because it's exactly the same thing. I became the seller in that situation. For sure. And for me, the end price was not the most important thing. It was the monthly mortgage that I needed to pay and the, you know, all the other things that were going to add up while I was attempting to find$40,000 to fix this property up. And it was much easier for me. It solved my problem. It was much easier for me to over the period of time, you know, get, you know,$10,000,$15,000 out of that property than it would have for me to try and find this extra funding and deal with the mortgage in the meantime. And it's an hour out of my way. And it's just it really helped me empathize with our sellers, knowing that there are real reasons that the the monthly payment feels bigger than the equity loss.
SPEAKER_00:Exactly. Well, the equity is just air, right? It's not it's not realized, it's just a number that we're comparing potentially if we're a seller to what we saw our neighbor down the street sell for last year, and we think sometimes justify that we should get somewhere in that same ballpark for it. But in reality, what we need is a stop to bleeding right before the seller, right? It's exactly we don't that is gravy over there what the neighbor got. But what we really need as a seller when it boils down to it is we need to get rid of this payment and be able to wash our hands of it and move on. And so I think that's important for all of you guys out there listening. If you're trying to go direct to seller, what Jenny and I are talking about here is really important stuff. And this was a big roadblock for me when I got into this business. Started learning about wholesaling, and I'm like, why would anybody sell their house for like 50 cents on the dollar? This doesn't make sense. And you know, the market's been pretty hot for the most part. I mean, we're seeing a little bit of a slowdown now on the with buyers in the market. But for the sellers, since I got into it in 2016, it's been pretty much a seller's market, right? And so you're like, well, why would you ever do that? Right. And then I had some of several situations like this where I just really understood what their needs were and what they were trying to accomplish. And I was like, oh, they don't really care about money that much. Well, that's weird. Because I because I'm financially driven, I'm a financially motivated person. So for me, I'm like, wow, I don't it was like hard for me to wrap my brain around it until I really started to understand what a lot of these people's situations were. And again, the money was secondary. It was, yeah, it was a factor. Gotta get, you know, we still can't can't take a complete beat down on it. But if I can solve this major issue over here, then I'm okay letting go of some of that equity. Right. Yeah. So super important. So talk, let's go back to that deal then. So you said it was a good one. Can you share some of the numbers with us on this deal, Jenny? How did it work out? Did you do the work yourself? Did you find some contractors? How did you find it? Let's like deep dive this deal.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah. I don't swing hammers unless I need to.
unknown:Okay. Okay.
SPEAKER_00:You and me both. And I you don't even want I don't, I never need to because I'm just going to mess it up worse than what it should have been.
SPEAKER_02:Exactly. In this one, I did not end up putting a couple small things. Like I forgot to tell my GC that he should change doorknobs and like a couple small things. So I did end up doing those last minute. Um, but no, I I hire out the majority of my work. Um on this one, that Indian Trails one, let's see, I purchased it for$250.
SPEAKER_00:Okay.
SPEAKER_02:I sold it for$469.
SPEAKER_00:Okay.
SPEAKER_02:And I put about$75 into it.
SPEAKER_00:Nice.
SPEAKER_02:Now with holding costs and you know everything associated with that. Um, but yeah, that was a pretty, pretty nice deal.
SPEAKER_00:That's that's sounds to me like a six-figure deal.
SPEAKER_02:Mm-hmm. Yeah.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah. I if I had my bell right here, I'd be ringing the bell for celebrating that one. That's awesome.
SPEAKER_02:How did you most of them are not that way, but this one I just I really looked out.
SPEAKER_00:I asked you for your best one. Yeah. There it was. Okay. How did you finance this deal?
SPEAKER_02:That one, I actually used a bridge loan. So I went through a true lender on that one.
SPEAKER_01:Okay.
SPEAKER_02:Um, so that was actually before I knew about the hard money process. Like this was actually pretty early. I think it was, I don't know, 2021 or something. Before I knew really how to utilize hard money and what it can do. And I hadn't yet established all of my relationships with private money yet. Um, so I was still working corporate. So I, you know, my husband then and I, you know, had the ability to finance this ourselves. So we got a bridge loan on that. So for the purchase price.
SPEAKER_00:Explain what uh what a bridge loan is for those that don't know what a bridge loan is.
SPEAKER_02:Yes. So a bridge loan is a temporary loan that you can get to be able to somewhere between, you know, nine and eighteen months usually. Um, it's a loan that you can get to be able to purchase a property that you know is going to be a temporary loan. You're meant to refinance out of it or sell the property, right? Many people use them to be able to move from house to house, right? If they if they want to be able to purchase a future home, but they have not yet sold their previous home, they can get a bridge loan to be able to purchase the future one and then be able to refinance out of it. Um so that's what we did with that one. So we because I knew that I would need to have even if I had known about hard money at that time, I would have needed more than six months for a couple of reasons. Because I needed to rent back to this person. It was a large enough project because start to finish that project probably did take me four months. Like even if I was focused on it, it was a large project, 3,000 square feet, full, full rehab. So it did take me a good four months to get that one done. And to be able to sell a 450 plus ARB house, you never know when you're going to get offers on that. So I wanted a little buffer room on that.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah.
SPEAKER_02:So the bridge loan was for 18 months, so it gave me a buffer to do all of that work. Um, but then the rehab for that. So we've we financed the purchase price out of that bridge loan, and then the rehab came out of our HELOC.
SPEAKER_00:Ah, I love it. I love it. So, those of you guys listening to this, what Jenny's talking about, I did not get into bridge loans a ton in the last episode. So if you go back and listen to the last episode that just dropped, I went through and did a solo episode on a bunch of different financing options, how to finance deals, a bunch of different ways. One of the ways I talking about is HELOCs. Jenny's talking about a perfect example of this. This is where you pair your HELOC with a different thing. Now, what she's describing with the bridge loan, a lot of what I described in that episode, we talk a lot about at the community banks, so the commercial lenders in our area. Very similar type of thing. It sounds like Jenny, you work more maybe more with a national lender.
SPEAKER_02:I'm a broker.
SPEAKER_00:Okay, so more of a national lender. And so the difference there is you're working with what Jenny worked with was it was a broker who's gonna shop it out to a bunch of big, basically big outfits, big companies, right? Or or small, just a wide range of them, right? When you work with a community bank, typically it's gonna be you're gonna have a banker, you're gonna have a relationship with that person, it's gonna be more common sense lending. Where Jenny's talking about her and her husband at the time where it had to fit into a box, right? Of like you have these W-2s, your debt-to-income ratio, you'll hear those terminologies when you go that route. When you work with a community bank, yeah, it's a factor, but they're gonna look at the overall global picture of what you have. But having that HELOC is such a sneaky tool that so many people just miss, or they have like, oh, I'm gonna lose my house if I do this. And in reality, you're using it for a short period of time. You're not keeping this HELOC out there in perpetuity for years and years and years and years and years, right? It's exactly help bridge that gap that you need out of that 18 months to get this thing rehab, sold, pay your HELOC back, keep profits, right?
SPEAKER_02:That's exactly it. I mean, we keep going back to this theme of massive imperfect action. Yeah, right. Where we just I decided to take out the HELOC before I even had opportunity to, you know, before I had a property. So I had gotten myself to the point to be able to move and utilize the financial resources that we had. If I hadn't taken out that HELOC before I had the offer on this property, it would have been a blocker, right? We would have needed to then apply for the HELOC and then, you know, timelines. And so as much as you can do to get prepared with all the financial tools that you have, set up that HELOC ahead of time. Yes, it costs you some closing costs and appraisal, but at least then you know maybe you have 20 or 100 or$200,000 available to you. It gives you options.
SPEAKER_00:100%. So that that's always the debate I hear people talk about, Jenny. And it sounds like you're probably more in the camp that I would subscribe to. It's like get the deal and then the money will come. That's what that's one, that's one you're smiling, right? Yeah.
SPEAKER_02:The other thing is because it's always so stressful that way. But yes, that is usually what I do. I get the deal, and sometimes it's very stressful though, when you have a contract. In front of you and then you're chasing for the money.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, get the money.
SPEAKER_02:I like to be somewhere right in between.
SPEAKER_00:I'm I'm a get the money and then the deals. You'll be able to move on deals, right? You can make you can make quicker decisions. And a lot of times that's where you're going to get the better deals, is because you can move fast, right? Um, so a couple things you talked about that I think are important for some of the listeners out there, right? If you're hesitating and you're in analysis paralysis every time, every time a deal comes up, you're gonna miss out on so much money, right? And part of that analysis paralysis is gonna come from you not having set up your financial resources ahead of time or making those connections or raising that private money or the HELOC opened up or those types of things. If you have those things and you know what they are, right? Okay, I know my private money lenders are gonna be 10%, I know my HELOC is seven per whatever it is, right? And I know I have this much amount here, I have this much amount here, I have this commercial lender over here who charges this roughly. Now, when a deal comes up, you've already got all the inputs you need to just do your analysis quickly. You're not guessing where am I gonna get this$50,000 for the rehab on this thing. Like you already know. That's right. I got my HELOC here, pair that with my commercial lender here, bada boom, bada bang, done deal. Here's my numbers, here's how it works out, right? Going back to the HELOC thing, too, just to talk about that. My my current favorite HELOC lender, I'll give them a shout out. I don't get an affiliate fee for this or anything, but I just I love them, so I I promote them. Johnson Bank, I've been using them up for my HELOCs for four or five years. I have not found anybody who can compete with them yet. So if you're out there in your in your you have a lender that'll do HELOC in Wisconsin and they can beat this right now at the time this drops, please let me know because I'm always shopping. As much as I love Johnson, I'm not I'm not super loyal when it comes to lenders. I'm going with whoever's gonna give me the best deal. Um, but they have no closing costs. So the appraisal fee, yes. So the appraisal you talked about, you don't have to pay for an appraisal unless you want a certain value above what their evaluation will do. So they'll do an in-house evaluation, no cost for that, um, no closing costs. I think they just require you open like a check-in account for like 250 bucks minimum. Yeah, you have to have like a$250 minimum or something like that. But right now, they're doing 6.49% on the HELOCs.
SPEAKER_02:So it's not Prime plus one or Prime plus two based on your percentage? Oh, nice.
SPEAKER_00:Um and uh they'll lock that in for like nine months. Will they lock that in? They'll lock it in for like nine months so you can get and get these deals flowing. And then uh every time I've ever like if rates change, I only see it like rates are probably gonna keep going down, if we had to guess. Uh they'll keep adjusting that percentage down too. So uh and they go 90% loan to value. So if you if your house is worth$100,000, your first bank loan is$50,000, they will give you a line of credit for$40,000 on that thing, which is awesome. Like you so you're basically able to tap a lot of that equity and put it to work, right? If it's just sitting on the sidelines or dead, dead equity is what I call it, dead money sitting on your property.
SPEAKER_02:So now there was a lesson that I learned on that though. So I do want to make sure that as people are using these HELOCs, you do need to pay them off.
SPEAKER_01:You do.
SPEAKER_02:So make sure that you return back to it and pay it off with the proceeds that you have before you take any of the profits for yourself, right? Because that HELOC, it is on your personal credit, right? It's on your personal home, it's not on your investment homes, it is on your personal credit. And so it does contribute to your debt-to-income ratio and it does apply to your credit score. So if you get too heavy in usage of your HELOC and you totally max it out and you're leaving it there for months at a time, just know that it will have impact on your credit score. It will bounce back once you pay it off, but just be aware of that, that this is a personal line of credit.
SPEAKER_00:That's such a good point. The other thing I would say along that line, Jenny, make sure you guys are tracking all of your expenses. And part of it is your line of credit expense. If you're using that for flips or for business purposes, that's an expense to your business. So you can still write that off and count that against your profit. Otherwise, Jenny's talking about making over$100,000 on this deal. If she doesn't take every expense she can possibly take against this, that's just more Uncle Sam is going to take from her at the end of the year, right? And so you want to track as many expenses as you as possible. I know that can be an issue sometimes because we have lines of credit on all kinds of different properties, investment properties, and all these other things. And so some of them are my personal name. So if I don't tell our bookkeepers, like, hey, I use this line of credit over here and make sure you're tracking that interest on it, I'm gonna lose that deduction. It's gonna look like we made way more money than we did on the property. So important little factors there with the HELOC. So what do you do about the process? I want to get back to one other thing. Go ahead.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, I want to get back to one other thing you said about sort of that preparation, right? So we talked about the num like amount of properties that I walked and like how to run those numbers. And then also about the financial preparation. I remember a time I was in a a sales negotiation training with Derek Donbeck, and he it was trying to get us on calls direct to seller. And he split us off at first and you know, had us make calls in small groups, and then he invited some of us to make calls in the middle of a group. And I was absolutely terrified.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, that's if you're not used to that muscle being flexed. That's gonna cause some that's gonna cause some red face and sweats going.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, I was absolutely terrified. And he challenged me and he said, Jenny, why are you so scared? And I sat there for a minute and thought about it, and I said, It's because I'm afraid they're going to say yes.
SPEAKER_00:So true.
SPEAKER_02:And then what was I supposed to do? Like, I once I answered that question truthfully to myself, I realized I didn't yet have like all the network that I felt like I needed to on my financial preparation. I needed to find more banks, I needed to find more private lenders, I needed to get on the calls with hard money. So I knew exactly. And contractors, like, what do I do next? Like, how do I make this as so fast as I can? And yeah, once I answered that question truthfully to myself, then I spent the next, you know, few weeks filling those gaps. And then I felt much more comfortable.
SPEAKER_00:That is a gold nugget right there, guys. Go back, rewind that two minutes and re-listen to that. Because as you were saying that, Jenny, I was I was reflecting while you were saying that. And I was like, you know what? The only time I'm hesitant to make an offer on something is when I don't have all my ducks in a row. When I don't feel com when I don't feel comfortable with where I'm at financially or who's gonna do the work or who's gonna manage the property, or there's some question out there that I haven't really sat and thought through, and all of a sudden a great opportunity prevent presents itself, and I'm hesitant. Right. If I have all my ducks in a row, I'm like, yep, done, sign it. And people, you know, that confidence comes through, and it and you're gonna get better deals that way by having that confidence. So that is such a good, I mean, good lord, that needs to be replayed multiple times for a lot of people out here. Because even me, I've been doing this a decade now, and I still like you know, you try to level up and you try to go to that next level. It's like what's keeping me now from doing a thousand units in one crack, right? The only thing keeping me from that is the confidence of A, knowing how to run the numbers, where to get the money, who's gonna manage it. If I can solve those things, why can't I buy a thousand units?
SPEAKER_02:And it makes the offers much easier, much easier.
SPEAKER_00:Gold nugget. Drop the bomb right there. There it was.
SPEAKER_01:I love it.
SPEAKER_02:Good.
SPEAKER_00:What what do you what do you do for financing these days? So you talked about now you understand hard money. Are you utilizing hard money? Have you s have you graduated to any other cheaper funds? Like what are you doing for any deals going forward? Yeah. Like what is that prep?
SPEAKER_02:So I always start, I always start with private money. So I I try, so I will still use my own money for rehabs, um, but I try not to finance any of the you know purchase of the property with my own money as much as possible.
SPEAKER_01:Okay.
SPEAKER_02:Um so I will go private money first, uh, just because I I like to be able to give back to our community and the people who have earned, you know, their status as private money lenders. I like to be able to do that. Um and then I use hard money as well. Like I use, you know, I use both of those concurrently, uh, just depending on how many deals I have and who has what. Um I am so I'm recently self-employed, I suppose. Like I was working corporate until uh full-time corporate until 2023. And so this the self-employed for the last couple of years, you have to build a couple years of tax returns to be able to be bankable again, right? So so I'm really relying right now on that private money, hard money, initial purchase, being able to get in there, use as many of their funds for rehab as I can, depending on how I purchase the property, using mine if I need to after that. And then refinancing if I'm keeping the property. I do, I do do some BRS. Most things I flip back to market because I'm a real estate agent as well. So I I flip most of my properties back to market. But when I do keep them, then I will use the DSCR route.
SPEAKER_00:Ah, okay, cool. Explain just brief, again, with jargon terms for anybody who doesn't know what DSCR is. I know we've talked about it in a couple episodes, but yeah.
SPEAKER_02:So DSCR is the debt service coverage coverage ratio loan. Um essentially what it means is that you are not taking your own personal financial reality into account. It's what the property is able to produce in terms of income and then debt. So are you able to get it rented? Is it performing in terms of rent? And then what is the income of the property minus the expenses and the mortgage? And if there's a certain ratio, depending on who you're using, you know, some of them are looking for 1.3%, some of them are looking for 0.7%. Like it just depends on what they're looking for. Um, but as you find, I usually work with brokers for those to be able to get DSCR options based on the property and the income and debt associated with it.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah. So just to clarify a little bit more, what Jenny's talking about is like if you have a property, it produces a thousand bucks a month in rent and your uh uh payment, taxes, insurance, that's gonna end up being a thousand bucks, you're at a one percent debt to income ratio, right? So sometimes to get the better terms, they want to see 1.2. So you'd have to bring in$1,200 a month in rent on this to and have a thousand dollar monthly expense on there. What's interesting though is they don't, when they do these loans, Jenny, as far as I know, and maybe I'm wrong, I've never used one, but from what I understand is do they factor in management costs or any capex or any of that kind of stuff, or is it strictly looking at PITI property property?
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, it is mostly just the income and the PITI.
SPEAKER_00:Okay.
SPEAKER_02:That depends though. So there are some local places that do do DSCR as well, and they look at both the PITI as well as the expenses for utilities, management, et cetera. I self-manage, uh, but many people, you know, will have that management fee in there.
SPEAKER_01:Okay.
SPEAKER_02:But some of them will have management utilities, vacancy, uh, maintenance, as well as debt, which is the smart way to do it, right? I'm running my numbers that way anyway. Right. I want that ratio for my expenses plus my debt. I'm not buying anything that can't cover that.
SPEAKER_00:So exactly.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah. Yeah. Cool. I just wanted to clarify that because I know sometimes when I when people are looking at how am I going to get out of this hard money loan, for example, you get a six-month window with most hard money lenders. These DSCR loans are a great option if you're not bank, quote unquote, bankable, as Jenny's talking about with W-2 income. You're a business owner or you're self-employed for the last, you know, you went into a self-employed thing for a year or less and you don't, or you're writing a lot of stuff off, right? And you're showing that you don't make any money, quote-unquote, which is what I do.
SPEAKER_02:Yes. Right.
SPEAKER_00:Which every smart self-employed person should do, right? But it can catch you if you're working with some of the big boys out there, right? They don't they don't factor that in because you got to fit in their box for Wall Street, right? Just for them to sell off that loan. So where community commercial banks work, or a DSCR option is a great option because they, yes, they have to look at you and your credit score, but they're also going to really just look at the property and how the property is performing. And so it's a great kind of option. So if you're going to use a hard money loan and you're thinking of, hey, I may need to keep this property, having a DSCR as your next step, at least even if you're thinking I'm going to flip it, but you get in a pickle where the timeline is going long, if you have that DSCR option, kind of going back to what you talked about earlier, Jenny, being prepped for some of these things early on. Now you can transition that property over to a DSCR rent it out, and you're out of that expensive hard money loan and you're into something more manageable for the longer term, right? And it's a way you can sort of burr some of these, right? I mean, is that what you're doing? Are you taking it?
SPEAKER_01:I guess what I do.
SPEAKER_00:And burring it that way, right? Yeah. Yeah. So it's a great option for people who are quote unquote unbankable in the in the traditional sense. So I love that strategy. So for if you guys are out there, a couple themes I'm hearing today, Jenny, take massive action, right? And get prepped. Get your money in order and be ready to rock and roll for any outcome, right? Like just like in the business, you go into a partnership, it's gonna end at some point. So you better have that conversation up front of what's gonna happen when it ends. Either one of you is gonna die, a divorce, you're gonna want to go a different direction.
SPEAKER_02:Right. You never know when life will take you other places.
SPEAKER_00:Same thing when you're thinking about the money situation. Like you're going into it with this intention, but you should have some backup plans in case things don't go exactly the way you thought they were gonna go on the front end, and then you can transition over into something else, right? Private money.
SPEAKER_02:Especially if you're planning on a flip, I think. Especially if you're planning on a flip, because you never know what that market's gonna do, right? I mean, even I have a flip on the market right now, and the ARV that I ran on it at the end of July is very different from the ARV that I ran on it in September. You never know when these things will happen. No. So, yes, I mean, prepare for many exit strategies.
SPEAKER_00:Exactly. Talk about, I want to transition kind of last thing here as we as we wrap. Private money, this is a hot topic. I think it's a great strategy. Everybody should be out raising private money. There's a lot of roadblocks, though, for people mentally when they think about raising private money. Talk about your philosophy, how you've gone about it, any kind of talk tracks or tips or anything like that when you're raising private money from from your network.
SPEAKER_02:Oh, so the way that I go about raising private money is by showing up in the room. So it's all about relationships. It's all about helping people know who you are, know that they can trust you, show that you're doing the work, uh, that you are invested in the industry, that you're invested in the people in the industry. And so all the people that I have in my private money network right now are people who I have invested in getting to know. And that's usually through the RIAs, but it might be through maybe I met them at a RIA and then I get to know them outside. Maybe we're doing a project and they're a contractor of mine, or you know, however it is that I continue to build that relationship over time. Um, but I just I keep showing up. I think that's if I'm gonna leave one word golden nugget to any newbies trying to do this work, it's just keep showing up, right? I didn't when I was 25 and I could be in a very different place in my life had I made a different choice then, which is fine. I mean, it is what it is. But if you just keep showing up to the room, it's okay that you don't understand, ask those questions. Um, but that's how I raise private money. Like even the one I'm buying a duplex in a few weeks, I have private money on that as well. First time I'm using this private lender. Actually, there are two private lenders on that one. There's a first position and a second position. The second position I've never even met because the first position person trusts me enough that he's vouching for me somebody I don't even know. Wow. So that's amazing. And and I only have that because I went into the room, I've spent years there, I got to know who he is, he knows who I am. We are now a trusted relationship, and they're willing to then put their money with you.
SPEAKER_00:So yeah, such good and part of that to just drop the gold on the nugget that you just did there, I think, Jenny, is if you're listening to this and you think raising private money is going to be a quick, like boom, boom, boom thing, you might it took me probably three or four years to gain some of these relationships. You might have some people in your network, right? Like your mom. My mom was my first private money lender. It didn't take long to get her to, you know, come over and lend with me. Once you get outside of that immediate circle of people, though, and some people aren't comfortable asking their parents or you know, their immediate family uh if they want to get in on some deals. And again, I've given this nugget a lot of times. The way I approach private money is more of like a third party, who do you know that would want to get in on a deal with me? Versus, do you want to get in on a deal with me? It's a little bit, a little bit easier way to get into it. Now, some people I have now, because I've been doing this long enough, you gotta you build a reputation, you build the trust. It's easy to be like, hey, dude, I got a deal. Do you want do you want to in? This is what I'm offering. Do you want to be a part of it? It's it can be literally that easy now.
SPEAKER_02:That's usually what it is now. To me, right now it's just a text like, hey, I got this, I need this, do you want to be part of it? So it gets to be, you know, an easy conversation, and whoever has the money, you know, is is fulfilling your need.
SPEAKER_00:Right. And usually they're fighting to get in on it now, right? Like it's something.
SPEAKER_02:I mean, that's that's my eventual goal, right? Is to be able to on my whiteboard right here in front of me, it says my money makes my money. And that's my that's my eventual goal, right? Is to be able to, you know, participate in that. And I I do have some loans out already in my self-directed IRA. And you know, so I'm working my way there. That's that's the idea, is to be able to have your money work for you. Either in properties or in notes.
SPEAKER_00:Yep. And that's usually a graduation. I see a lot of people. They're active in real estate, and then as they if they do a good job stewarding their their finances, eventually they become the lender.
SPEAKER_01:That's right.
SPEAKER_00:And now they're just lending on deals and being very passive in the back end, which is a great thing to do. But I love it. So show up in the room. If you're new, right, and you you have fears about going to these meetups, everybody does. I will tell you this. I'm very outgoing. The first RIA meeting I ever went to, I was nervous as hell. I was. I just because it's a whole new network of people, and they all know each other and they're chit-chatting and ha ha ha ha. And you're just like this weird person in the corner, like, I don't know anybody over here, right? And that's okay. Like the first couple times you go, it's gonna feel weird, it's gonna feel awkward. You know, I think we try to do a really good job of of connecting with new people, new faces that we don't know, and introducing ourselves. But sometimes we're not perfect at the meetups either. We don't look at everybody, and that's okay. But if you just keep showing up in the room, pretty soon people are gonna be like, I don't know if I if I've ever met you before. What's your name? What do you do? Tell me about yourself, right? Then all of a sudden they're gonna connect you to somebody, just like Jenny's talking about the private lender thing. A connection leads to a connection, which is gonna lead to more connections, and pretty soon you'll feel like one of the OGs in the room, so to speak.
SPEAKER_02:Uh and it doesn't take long. No, you become an OG in the room after a year or two. So it really doesn't take long.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, if that. I know there's some people that uh it's probably been three months and we're like, oh yeah, dude, good to see you again. You know, and it's it's kind of a reunion of sorts uh every month that we get together. It's a good time. Chop it up with some new people. But don't let that intimidate you, like we're saying, if you're brand new. Just show up in the room and just keep showing up. Even if you're that like intentional your first time, you're just physically there. You don't want to talk to anybody, you're nervous as hell. That's okay. No big deal, but just show up again. And again, and again. And eventually you'll get more comfortable with it.
SPEAKER_02:And you don't need to have a plan the first time you walk in the room.
SPEAKER_00:No.
SPEAKER_02:What I love about those meetings is that you get tools in your tool belt every single time. Mean just small little things that you're gonna write down that you say, oh, I didn't know that that was a possibility. Like even this private lending thing we're talking about, there was a meeting about how to be a private lender a few years ago where I learned how to do it. I didn't even know that was a possibility before. And so that's how I learned to do it myself, as well as talk to people about what to what they should be thinking about. Right now I understand the tools and I could explain the process, make them feel a little bit more comfortable. I would never have known that I could use that as one of my main strategies unless I went to that meeting.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, exactly. And every time I go, I mean, I've been in this almost a decade, Jenny. Every time I do one of these podcasts, every time I go to one of the meetups, I'm learning something. There's some little nugget or something that sparks an idea, even if it wasn't directly because of the information somebody was getting. I was, it'll just, I'll just go in my little entrepreneur rabbit hole and I'll go, oh, I never thought about maybe I could do this or this or this. And then boom, I've got a little note, and now I got my new little nugget I needed. So and you and I could probably, it sounds like we could probably talk about the importance of of showing up for another hour or two. But we'll we'll probably I think we beat that horse now pretty good. So we'll let we'll let people relent on that a little bit. But Jenny, we always wrap with a fun question at the end because one of the goals when I started this was we have people outside of Wisconsin that are thinking, hey, I might want to put some cash into Wisconsin real estate. I don't know anything about the state. Tell us, do you have a favorite Wisconsin tradition or place you like to visit here in our great state?
SPEAKER_02:My favorite Wisconsin tradition. Now I haven't listened to all your podcasts. This may have been mentioned before, um, but I am originally from Green Bay. I grew up here, I you know spent my childhood here, and my kids are spending their childhood here. And one of the things I love as a child in Green Bay is that you can go to some of the Packer practices in the summer and bring your bike with you. And you're not always gonna get chosen, you know, you may never get chosen, but you raise your hand as a Packer player is coming out and they will take your bike and they will ride it. And that you will be able to walk with them and you know, ride with them, you know, across the street, over to practice. And it just feels like such a special tradition to connect these professional players with the city that supports and loves them so much. And it just feels really special when you see those kids getting chosen and looked about their whole summer. That's one of my favorite things to do locally.
SPEAKER_00:I think that's a first. I don't think anybody's brought that up. Packers have definitely come up a lot. Lambeau Field has come up a lot, but I don't think that specific uh uh thing has come up. So you might be the first one in 60-some episodes, yeah.
SPEAKER_02:Oh, well, good. Good. Glad to hear it.
SPEAKER_00:Well, thank you guys all for tuning into another episode. We're gonna wrap this here. We're gonna let Jenny get back to work because now she does have a W2. So we gotta get it, we gotta put her to work and help her earn that paycheck so she can be bankable with some of these traditional people. But uh if you guys got some value out of this, please share the episode. We're also trying to get more ratings and reviews. It really helps us, guys. It helps us get up in the rankings, it helps us get into more people's earbuds. So if you could do us a huge favor if you've been listening, you got some value, please, wherever you're listening to this, rate it, review it. If it's on YouTube and you're watching this, subscribing and commenting on these is really, really helpful for us. But please do that as well. And we will continue to keep bringing you great episodes. So I've committed to at least 100 episodes. So I'm gonna keep going until at least we hit 100. I might keep going beyond that. But uh, but to help me get there, I need you guys to keep rating and reviewing the show. So, with that, Jenny, we will let you go and we will see all of you guys on the next episode.
