The Wisconsin Investor
Each week, we bring you interviews with some of Wisconsin's top real estate investors who share their tips, tricks, and strategies that you can implement right away. This show is dedicated to helping Wisconsin real estate investors elevate their game. Along with interviews, I'll also dive into hot topics in solo episodes and feature experts from various real estate sectors across Wisconsin.
The Wisconsin Investor
From Contractor to Investor: BRRRR, Bold Offers & Smarter Systems
Tired of messy flips, blown timelines, and deals that drain more than they deliver? Kent shows us how he flipped the script—moving from contractor to investor—by building calm, repeatable systems, using BRRRR strategies, and turning stale MLS listings into instant equity. If you want smoother projects and smarter profits, this one’s for you.
🔥 Inside This Episode:
📊 Case studies + ARVs: how to price right and avoid rookie mistakes
🪞 Mr. Sandless: the one-day refinish trick every flipper should know
⏱️ Why scheduling subs before close keeps hard money on track
📋 The investor’s playbook for managing scope, quality, and timing
🤝 How to give tough feedback to contractors (without burning bridges)
🏠 Real BRRRR duplex numbers: purchase, rehab, refi, and cash flow
📉 Negotiating stale MLS deals into instant equity wins
💸 Cost seg + bonus depreciation strategies most investors miss
⚖️ Lessons from divorce: equity splits, commissions, and closing costs
🛠️ A starter blueprint for running numbers and building your cost sheet
🎧 Listen now to level up your flips, rentals, and systems.
Don’t forget to share this episode, hit subscribe on YouTube, and leave a review—it helps us grow the show and bring you even more real-world investor insights.
Connect with Kent
📞 (920) 716-8031
📩 https://www.mrsandless.com/northeast-wisconsin-wood-floor-refinishing.php
🔗 Follow Kent on Instagram/Facebook — https://www.instagram.com/northeastwimrsandless/#
What's up, all my Wisco investors? This is Corey Raymond, your host of the Wisconsin Investor Podcast. As usual, I say this on every episode, but I only bring you guys good people. And I got another good dude here who I've known for several years, and we're gonna get into his story here in a minute. But I did want to also bring up Wisconsin discount properties as I do on every episode and just share with you guys again, kind of going back to something we've talked about. We haven't talked about this for a few weeks, but the case studies that we have on our website, I think this is super interesting for those of you out there that are trying to understand deals. Uh you can go through these uh case studies. Reese from our team spent a lot of time putting these numbers together. And what we're showcasing on there is the ARVs compared to what we advertise to our buyers compared to what they actually sold for. And the data is really, really cool to go through. You'll see some that are really low on there. We included those as well. That brings the average down. But those were typically people who just kind of cleaned and listed it and sold them for less. They did not take it to the after repair value, but we still included it. So I think anybody out there, if you're listening to this, you're trying to understand the market, you're trying to understand what other investors are doing, you can go back, look at those ARVs. If you've been on the list for a hot minute, go back and pull up some of those old emails, look back at your numbers, look at what you thought it would sell for, compare it to what it actually sold for, and see how you did on that. So you can get that on our website. You just go to Wisconsin Discount Properties.com across the top bar, I believe it says resources. You're gonna go there and you're gonna see the case studies tab. With that, let's get into today's episode. So I got my good buddy Kent Zoretsky here. Did I say that right, Kent?
SPEAKER_00:You said it, yeah. You're good.
SPEAKER_01:He it he is the owner of Mr. Sandless of Northeast Wisconsin. So we're gonna get into that a little bit. And one of the reasons I wanted to have Kent on here, guys, getting good quality contractors is always a big challenge, right? And getting people to do the work for you. Not only does Kent provide an awesome service, he's I've never had anybody that I've ever heard in the investment space say, oh gosh, stay away from that Kent guy. He is somebody you do not want in your houses. That's never been the case with Kent. He's got a great reputation in our market for the quality he does, the service he provides, and the business that he runs. He's running a great business, he's grown a business, and so there's a lot of great lessons that we can all learn from Kent on how to take a business as the one-man operation and start to scale that. Additionally, Kent also owns real estate himself. And so we'll get into some of that. We'll talk some real estate today. We're gonna talk some contractor stuff, and we're you know, we never know where these conversations are gonna go. But Kent, welcome to the show, man.
SPEAKER_00:Well, thank you. I really appreciate you having me on here. I uh I've listened to some of the episodes and and they're fantastic. So I I it's an honor to be here. So thanks.
SPEAKER_01:Awesome, buddy. Well, tell us, take us back, man. How how long have you been in people's houses starting with the with the flooring business? Yeah, so tell us a little bit about Mr. Sandless.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, so Mr. Sandless is a wood floor refinishing business. That's a franchise that started out in Philadelphia. Um, I am not the original owner of uh Mr. Sandless Northeast Wisconsin. Um, it was actually my good friend who started it, and I was working at Berkstrom at the time, and I was just feeling kind of stuck. And so he was a full-time firefighter, so he wanted to have something to do on his days off. And yeah, so he uh we were in a Bible study together at the time, and he ended up uh saying, Hey, I know you're feeling kind of stuck. Would you be interested in coming and working for me? And uh, you know, especially on like I need someone on a days off, or I'm sorry, on the days at the station, um he needs somebody to do the jobs. So um we had just had our first baby uh and we took a the leap of faith. He said he had three months of income available in in savings available for me. So as long as we got jobs on the books to you know start filling up the schedule uh after three months, uh we were good to go. But that was quite a leap, you know, having a newborn, um, which is pretty wild. So um, but jumped in and then uh got to learn the business a little bit, got to learn how to do the flory finishing. Um but so and with Mr. Sandless, we actually have it is a proprietary process where we can basically refinish floors in one day. That's the that's the main the main process. Um and there it's there's a more to it, um, you know, and I can get I can give my little elevator pitch if you want. Um but the the main gist is that with our sandless refinishing, what we do is we take a solution and we apply it to the floor first, and then we buff the floor of that solution down. So the idea is we're we're basically chemically prepping the surface of the floor without taking it down to raw wood. So once that is done, then we can go ahead and we can apply multiple coats of sealer and finish, and that whole process is done in one day.
SPEAKER_01:So nice. So we how long does it normally take, Kent? Like if but if if you're not using the Mr. Sandless process, like what does that normally take uh any other company to do?
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, so we can refinish with our sandless refinishing, we can refinish up to about a thousand square feet in a day. Um obviously I have some people we have more than just one person doing it if we're gonna do that. Um we have you know, I have multiple guys, you know, that we'd have on the floor at the same time. But if it was a thousand square feet, like a full sanding job, we'd probably be looking at I would suspect probably two or three days to to do. So um it cuts down a lot of time, um, keeps people in their house you know longer and um lets people get back into their house faster.
SPEAKER_01:So no doubt. So it's good for you guys because you can do more jobs, right, in a faster amount of time, but it's also great for the customer, as you mentioned, you're not displaced for nearly as long. Or I know you've done you've done a few of our properties that had hardwoods in there when we're remodeling, and you know, if you're trying to general contract this thing yourself, it's you're trying to, you know, the goal is speed to get it up as quickly as you can, right? And so if I know, hey, Kent says it's gonna take two days, even great. I I can bank on that versus potentially, you know, if it's a bigger property. Now you're talking five, six, seven days with with the regular process, and that time really messes with you. Now you got to try to line somebody else up, your holding costs, there's all kinds of stuff that factor into that, that kind of those untangible things that I think a lot of people don't really factor in.
SPEAKER_00:Right. Yeah, yeah. And well, and the other good thing with our sales for finishing is that there's absolutely no dust whatsoever. So there's no there's no real cleanup when we're all done either. The the biggest thing would be, you know, um, you know, basically we we expect that if we are going to come in there that we'd be as close to last as possible. So that basically all you got to do on the at the end of your project is touch up paint where you know wherever it needs it, because that's usually the one of the last things. Touch up paint and final clean and either get it on the market or get somebody in there to rent. So um, but the good thing is is that you can, you know, you can depend that we're gonna um we we do pride ourselves on making sure that we are there the day that we say we're gonna be there. Um that's one of our big goals. Um, and then also that uh and I joke about this, I may have even said this to you in the past, but my goal is to be the least stressful contractor you work with. So um, because I know how stressful, you know, generally speaking, even if you have great contractors doing your project, it's just always stressful. So my goal is to just be the least stressful contractor you work with.
SPEAKER_01:So yeah, I like that. You're not saying stress-free because there's gonna be stress with it. It's just be the least stressful. Yeah. Yeah, yeah. Well, you were pretty painless. I mean, any project we've ever had, John, dude, it's pretty painless. The communication is awesome. I mean, the bar is really low in the contractor space. And so, you know, it's not hard to exceed expectations, but I mean, you you do like a I would say I I consider you like uh the expectation I would have for a high performing business, right? Like I'm like, oh, this is the expectation I have looking at it. You guys always uh I don't I don't put you in the contractor category anymore, Kent. So that's a huge that's a big compliment.
SPEAKER_00:But I take that as a huge compliment. So yeah, um yeah, yeah. It's it's it is really hard to to find to find good contractors. I'm um I I'm constantly looking for good contractors, and I also like to find, especially when people do perform at a high standard uh and a high standard quality, I I recommend them like crazy. Problem is then those guys get busy and now you can't get a hold of them. Um so it's a it's a catch-22, and especially in the investment world. So I think that's why there's probably a lot of churn of contractors because once they get once they get big enough, uh then they may or may not have time to get uh to take on investor projects. Yeah, that's what I mean.
SPEAKER_01:One of the best strategies we ever utilized when we were flipping a lot of properties and and when we started out, Carrie and I, it was mostly in Green Bay, is where we were doing all of our stuff. So we were able to get a contractor, he was great, we had a great relationship. He liked working with us because we didn't micromanage him and we didn't need to because he did what he said he was gonna do when he said he was gonna do it. And if they couldn't make it work, he communicated and we're like, oh my gosh, this guy's a unicorn. Like what we did is we snatched him up, like we started flipping properties just to keep him busy so we didn't lose him because we knew how valuable he was. Even if we were gonna break even on one, yeah, but we we kept him in our in our sphere and kept him working, we were fine with that because we knew, okay, we'll make 30 on the next one and 20 on the next one, and whatever the case is. But we needed him, he was so important in that process when we were really actively flipping, then we had to just keep him kind of too selfishly to ourselves.
SPEAKER_00:That makes perfect sense. I also think that especially when you find a general contractor, um, that and if now were you generaling the majority of your projects, or were you leaving that up to him?
SPEAKER_01:I was leaving that up to him.
SPEAKER_00:So that's a I mean, then you really found a unicorn. Somebody I mean, because I'll be honest with you, I would never want to be a general contractor because it sounds like the most stressful thing in the world. Um, just you know, balance doing the balancing act. But uh, I'm always impressed when you find a detail-oriented um general contractor that keeps the timeline moving. It's so important on these on these flips, and um, especially flips, uh, because especially if you have hard money, you know, you like you said before, you got it, you have a deadline, and that helps us to be sold at a deadline.
SPEAKER_01:So, yeah. Yeah, when you see the a lot of these hard money loans, you know, it's six months, you have a six-month note, and you're like, Oh, cool, I got six months to sell this, you know, sell this thing. And then you get into it, you're like, Yeah, that's right, I got six months to get it listed. Then all of a sudden you're like, wait a minute, no, I gotta pay this thing back in six months. Crap. That means you gotta have that thing listed. Yeah, you gotta have that thing listed three and a half months, maybe four months if you're really starting to push the boundaries. So that timeline is really, really important. You know, if that if you can't get that project done in eight to twelve weeks, you're gonna be you're gonna be in a bit of a pickle and it's gonna become stressful, as you said, Kent.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah.
SPEAKER_01:What are the things, what are the things you see uh as a contractor right out there that some of the most successful investors that you work with, what do they do on the uh as it relates to, you know, maybe you can just speak from your personal experience, or maybe just uh observing because you're there on job sites, right? You're seeing these things in progress. Like, what are you seeing some of the most successful investors doing out there as it relates to how they how they communicate with you as a contractor, how they organize their days, how they organize their business, any kind of insights on what these guys are doing?
SPEAKER_00:So I I I'm I'm jumping back in my mind, I'm jumping back and forth between my contractor hat and my uh and my investor hat because I'm pretty poor time manager when it comes to my my own investments. I I'm terrible at it, mostly probably because I'm doing all you know, I'm running Mr. Samless. That's probably the main reason. Um but um in from the contractor side, I think the biggest thing that I see that makes a successful investor is when they have a project that's coming up, they're already putting the wheels or the you know the wheels in motion before they even close on it. And it's they're basically the second they close, they already have everything lined up as much as possible. Um, everything lined up, but they've also communicated with their contractors, you know, whether it's plumbing or HVAC or it's you know electrician or flooring or painting, and they already have a general timeline. And the more specific that timeline is, the the better that project's gonna run, you know. And and obviously there's contingencies and there's leeway to kind of in there, um, because who knows, especially when you open up. But I mean, even right away, they're gonna they already have the cleanup crew, you know, as soon as they get keys, the cleanup crew is you know lined up to be there. Um and that's huge because the sooner you get on that clean out uh and demo, you know, you get the ball rolling right away. So for sure. Yeah. But also, they're communicating with all of their contractors a lot. Um, I'm a big fan of overcommunication. Um, I'd much rather have overcommunication than not enough. There's nothing more frustrating from a contractor side when you don't get any communication. Um or very little, I guess I should say.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah. When you say communication, Ken as a contractor, what kind of communication are you looking for? Are you looking for specifics like, hey, I want this specifically done? Are you looking for time? Like what are the things that make things from your end of things go really, really smooth?
SPEAKER_00:So I think the first thing is does the investor have a general idea of what they want? So like if you're bringing me into a project and you're like, hey, we could do, you know, we have the option, we have wood floors in here. I I want your opinion on whether or not the wood floors are worthwhile to save. Um, because I get that question a lot. You know, should we save this? Should we have, you know, do these wood floors? And if so, asking me what my opinion is, especially since I do have that investor mindset, and I will be more than happy to tell someone, like, no, just you know, on this one, you know, just go with LVP or just carpet it because of your time frame, your budget, whatever it is. Um, but if they're asking me my opinion and also um letting me know um, yeah, so if they if they have a general idea, but also um of what they want, but also a general idea of their timing. Um and getting in front of because I'm usually booked out anywhere from four to eight weeks almost all the time. Uh so realistically, a an investor, since I am on the back end of the project, an investor should call me basically the day they close, the day before they close. If I can get in early, even before they close, all the better. Then I can go do an estimate and I can get them a ballpark price, a general idea of what they of what um it's gonna cost to do the job. But then as soon as they close, hey, just so you know, I closed on the property, um, my timeline roughly is you know, six weeks, two months, you know, two and a half months. And then if they already kind of know what they want, then we can go ahead and we can put it on the schedule right away. And I'd much rather move around my schedule to accommodate than for them to call and say, Hey, by the way, can you get in in two weeks? Or can you get in next week? How fast can you get in? And it's like, I mean, I don't I don't know because six weeks. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So that's the hard part.
SPEAKER_01:So that's a that's such a good nugget, guys. Go back and re-listen to that because I think with hardwoods, obviously, you're hearing that. If you guys do have hardwoods here, that's an important thing here to talk to any of those folks as early as you can because they're gonna be on the back end, as Kent's saying. But think about that with any project. You know, it sounds like what I heard here, Kent, and we've definitely seen this as well with with our own flips and with um successful investors that we're selling deals to. The guys that are ahead of the game, they're not waiting for close date. They are on the they're on the phone the minute we award them a property, they're making calls and they're getting things lined up, and they're at least just giving people the heads up. You know, we don't let people go into the property until the three-day prior to closing window. It's just messy with the sellers, it creates conflict. It blows, we've had deals blow up because one of the investors in there, they say something they shouldn't say to the seller, and all of a sudden, now we got to put a fire out, right? So it becomes a mess. But we have, you know, we have we do the best we can with inspections. We give people inspections ahead of time, they have video walkthroughs. The most successful investors I see like working with our deals, they're taking that inspection report and they're sending that to their contractors, the appropriate ones, if they have you know certain uh subs that they want to reach out to, electricians, plumbers, whatever. They're getting you know, ballpark quotes ahead of time. They're telling them, hey, I'm I'm expecting to close on this date. As soon as I close, you know, I want you in there, and then I'm you know, hey, two weeks later, I want you in here, whatever the case is. And they're kind of lining a lot of this stuff up and just getting it on those contractors' radars ahead of time. And they don't need to get into the property a lot of times to do this stuff. They've got a video, they've got an inspection report. The contractors don't have to drive over there then. They can just get a rough idea of what they're dealing with. I mean, it seems to be a really good system for those kinds of people. But I think that's such a good nugget that you just laid out there of just getting ahead of whatever your project is, not waiting for that close date.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, yeah. Well, I mean, what I and I always mess up the at the old that old adage, but like, you know, those who fail to plan, plan to fail, you know. I think that's how approximately how it goes. I think you nailed it. So I mean, if you're if you're ready to, you know, if you're ready to plan this thing out, it's gonna make everything easier.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, that's so good. And one more point. Sorry, one more point.
SPEAKER_00:The only other thing that I would say is treat your contractors with respect. You know, we we we hustle our butts off. I mean, we especially especially the good ones that like you know, like I love working for investors. You guys make and this is a symbiotic relationship, right? Like if I make it easy on you, you're probably gonna make it easy on me. But you know, we are we're busting our butts. Um, and we're out there, you know, trying to make a living for our family and doing hard work. Um, I mean, you know, that wood for finishing specifically is hard, but any of the trades specifically, we are we are really trying to do good work. Most people are trying to do good work. Um, but like just I will treat you with respect. I would just expect the same thing to be you know treated with respect. I'm not just a lowly contractor, right? So yeah.
SPEAKER_01:Is that is that a common thing, Kent? Like, are you are you getting that sentiment on a regular basis from people?
SPEAKER_00:I think I think yeah, I think in early days it was a little bit that way. Um I mean, granted, I've been doing this for almost 15 years now, so yeah, time time flies when you're having fun. Wow, wow. But I think that I'm established enough, especially in this community, um, you know, that I think that there's a lot more respect for me now than there was in the beginning because I think I've proven myself. But how do you how do you get better and get uh have a better business relationship if you aren't treating your contractors with respect? Um it just it tells a lot about you. There's some people who I don't really like to work for um because they don't treat you know me or any of their contractors with respect.
SPEAKER_01:Um the general rule just don't be an a-hole in general. Yeah, that's about it. Right. It's it's as simple as that. That can kind of go with any any relationship in business. But talk to me about this. So this is one thing I kind of struggle with with contractors, right? Sure. I have I have a gentleman right now in particular that I've had do like handyman things for me and sort of stuff. And and that I think it's uh it's always goes back to like what can I do differently, right? That's anytime there's something that goes wrong in the business, I'm like, well, shoot, what should I have done differently in this situation? Biggest thing I can do is like I just expect certain things from people, and I don't always communicate that effectively. And so my expectation of the level of quality is here, yeah. And that person is like here for their level of quality. What's the what do you you know what recommendation would you give me, Ken, as a contractor, to give a contractor feedback without it turning into some kind of um you know, hard feelings, being a dick kind of stuff? Like, how do you how do you do that respectfully without that per and again every person's gonna be different, but if there was a way to that you've gotten feedback maybe on some of like, hey, I was expecting this and this is what I feel like I got, what's the what's the one that's felt the best maybe for you to receive that?
SPEAKER_00:You know, the hard the hard part for me is that I am a overcommunicator. I mean you we've known each other long enough, you know I like to talk. So um and I'm and I'm more than happy to I've learned a long time ago that as a contractor, if I'm not giving you what my expectation is about what can be done or what should be done or how long it'll take, then how can you give me feedback to whether or not what I'm laying out is correct? Does that make sense? Yeah, so if if I lay out if I lay out my expectation for how this floor is gonna turn out, and you're like, well, I don't I don't like that. I don't you know like let's say I I go in and I'm gonna say, you know, we're we can do our sandless refinishing in here, but there's a couple water stains here, or there's you know, and those won't come out because we're not sanding, um, or there's this really tough wear spot, I don't know if that'll come out. What I typically then go is if that stays there, is that acceptable for you? Or do you need that water mark gone, that water stain gone, or that, you know, whatever gone. So I think that when as an investor going in and saying, Hey, so this is what I see, and come in humbly, right? I think that's the big thing to your contractor, because the contractor should obviously know what they're talking about. Um, if you come in and humbly say, Hey, this is what I see, can you tell me what your thoughts are on how this is going to turn out? I mean, I'm trying to think of um cabinet installer. Let's just take a cabinet installer, generally speaking. Sure. And you see that that that you know that wall is all sorts of wavy, and the cabinet install may not be the best that it could be because that wall is all wavy. Well, then a commun a conversation needs to happen about well, so how do we remedy this? Because I want these cabinets to look good. This is a, you know, this is gonna this is what my thought is of the whole project as an end. I want this to sell for 400,000 or 300,000, whatever it is. I mean, it doesn't really matter the price, but this is my standard for this uh for for the quality of work for this house. Can you install these cabinets and countertops so that we don't have gaps behind the behind the the countertop um and or a big chunk of caulk on there because you know you just decide to caulk the top of it. That's not acceptable, you know. Like how could or how can we fix this, you know? So I think you pointing out the things that you see to the contractor, um, and then just asking what their thoughts are to remedy it, but then hold them accountable to that.
SPEAKER_01:That's good. Yeah, I think the biggest thing where I get in trouble with this stuff is I'm just running doing a hundred different things, and I'm like, Yeah, yeah, yeah, go take, go take care of that. You're professional, you know what you're doing. And then they do what they think is what I want because I wasn't very clear on the front end, like the stuff you're talking about, that's an example of someone who clearly knows what they want or asks, hey, what what is a reasonable expectation here up front? And then you guys are kind of both agreeing on that level of of craftsmanship, if you will, or exactly quality of work, right? And then if if you don't perform that, it's probably not you know, it's probably hard for you to get upset because you could look at it and say, Oh, yeah, we did talk about that, and you're right. That is not what we discussed. So let me take care of that. Where I think sometimes where I get in trouble, and I imagine other listeners get in trouble, is doing exactly that. We're just running, we're like, hey, go go do this project, and then they do what they think is best. And I think there's there's fault there on both sides, right? Like what you're describing is you're going in and you're you as the contractor are getting out in front and being proactive, right? And you're saying, Hey, yeah, here's this problem. I see this, this, this, you cool with that. I think where some of the contractors get in trouble too, and that quality, right, that you're dealing with is you might get a cheaper contractor, but if they're not doing some of the stuff Kent's talking about, you're gonna have to spend a lot more time explaining things and then maybe holding hands of that person where the person who's a professional here, like Kent, they're gonna come in and they're gonna say, Hey, here's the potential pitfalls of this, here's your options, here's how we would remedy it. What do you want me to do? And how do you have it done?
SPEAKER_00:Right. You know, it's funny because you're coming at this. What you just said before was uh when something does go awry, you're like, okay, well, what could I have done differently? If your contractor is also doing that, your general or your plumber or your drywall guy, if they're doing that as well, you both can learn what the next project should look like faster because you guys are both actually doing, well, what did I do? How can I make it better? You know? Um, but if anyone is going, well, I didn't know that, it's not my fault, you told me this. Okay.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah.
SPEAKER_00:Well, but also did was there communication, you know, was there communication between the people to to know that this wasn't going to turn out the best, you know? Right.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah. So exactly. Yeah. And I have it on both sides. I have another guy on this Jackson port house in in Door County that I'm working on, this manufactured thing. I'm learning as I go. It's been kind of a crazy process. Some of it was like communication with some people that was just like, like, I'm like a deer in the headlights on this thing. So I'm very humbly. I'm very humble on this one. Like, hey, please help me. I don't know what I'm doing. Tell me what I'm doing. And then I got guys though that have been great, and they will be like, hey, this is what you need. And then they'll send me pictures. They'll say, is this what you're thinking? You know, are you thinking this? What if we did something like this? And I'm like, yeah, let's do that. You know, so then we come into agreements on the scope of it, and then I can't really be pissed if they do what I tell them to do. Yep. And it turns out the way that they said it was going to turn out, and it just I just don't like the finished look. Well, I told them to do it. So I can't be mad at the contractor that it's on me.
SPEAKER_00:As does now you'll learn and move forward.
SPEAKER_01:Yep. And on the next one, hey, don't do that.
SPEAKER_00:Yep, yep, exactly.
SPEAKER_01:Yep. Yep. Let's uh let's transition over to the real estate biz, Ken. So you got your first purchase in 2019, was it?
SPEAKER_00:Yep, 2019.
SPEAKER_01:2019. Yeah, great. Talk about talk about that first purchase because you you had you were solopreneur for a long time. Now you're scaling the business, but solopreneur for a long time. What made you transition into um starting to acquire real estate?
SPEAKER_00:So probably about a year and a half after Mr. Sandless opened, um, I got invited to ARIA. I'm gonna go way back, um, so like 2011, and I uh I got invited to ARIA as a contractor because one of the guys was like, hey, you should show up because you would probably be it'd be useful really useful for you to work with these you know people are in flipping houses and have rentals and all that kind of stuff. So I just started showing up to meetings every month um as a contractor and became a sponsor and all that. And the more I sat in there, I was like, we should I should probably get some, you know, uh probably get some you know rentals at some point and probably do some real estate stuff because you know granting away on floors every day may or may not end up working out, you know, if my body gives out, you know. So um, and realistically, you know, I need a retirement plan of some sort, so might as well get some rental units. So um my ex-wife and I hemmed and hawed on it for a while, and you know, we were both obviously scared to to jump into that, and also didn't have any extra money, and I didn't necessarily understand hard money at the time. And so um so eventually I just started kind of getting on all the lists to the wholesale lists and keeping an eye out to see what people are selling, and then um uh in tw in 2019, Dave McClone, if you guys know Dave McClone, um yeah, he had a property on Evans Street in Oshkosh, and it was a pretty run-down duplex. Um, and mind you, this is these are 2019 numbers. Uh he had it listed, not listed, he had it uh as a wholesale deal for uh 67,000. So it was a three-bedroom, one bath lower, and a basically one bedroom, one bath upper. And so uh and I was I ended deciding to initially pass on it, and I'm like, eh, I just I can't I can't take this on, and I'm just admittedly too scared to do it. Well, he ended up calling me, he ended up calling me back, and I went to an open house, and he ended up calling me, you know, open house, you know, basically a look through. I was the only one that showed up to it. So, which was wild. I couldn't believe it. So he ended up calling me back and he goes, I got like six or seven projects I'm in the middle of right now. I can't take on another one. He goes, What if I dropped$4,000, you know, dropped it down to 60, 63,000? And I I was thinking about him like,$4,000 will actually bring me a pretty far away in re in the rehab. So um, okay, sounds good. So um ended up going to my ex-in-law's, uh actually my ex brother in law, and asked him if he would um finance it for me and then uh do a bird deal on it. Um and so I ended up rehabbing the upper by myself, um, for the most part, rehabbing the upper by myself. Um I shouldn't say that, not by myself, but um had the painter and stuff, but I did all the flooring and And trim and stuff like that. Um, and then got that rented uh right away. And then uh I got it rented a one bedroom, one bath upper. I got it rented for like seven seventy-five, which was awesome.
SPEAKER_01:In twenty nineteen. In twenty nineteen.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah. Yeah. Dang, dude. It was crazy. I just put it in there. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, I want to say that's what it was. It might have been seven twenty-five, but either way, it was in the 700s. I'm like, I'll just toss it up there. It was really nice. It was, I mean, it was nicely done.
unknown:Yeah.
SPEAKER_00:Um, but it's still an upper, you know, one bedroom upper. Um got that rented, and then so that helped me pay for um basically the the loan that I had for him from him. Um so he paid for the he paid for the down payment, and then he also financed the rehab.
SPEAKER_01:Um he was in second basically in second position on this thing. You had what uh what do you have? A bank in the in the first position or the hard money?
SPEAKER_00:Yeah.
SPEAKER_01:Okay.
SPEAKER_00:So um, yeah, so ended up uh then rehabbing the lower uh while the person was in the upper, and that worked out really well because I already had income coming in. Um and all in I ended up to be 90,000, I think it was 99,000 all in after the rehab and everything. And then I ended up having it appraised for 135. Um and then I got I think I got 1150 for the lower. So um dang, dude. Yeah, it was it was good, and then I ended up being able to pull$5,000 out on the on the refund, um, which was nice. So um, and that was after paying him all of his money back, um, which was great.
SPEAKER_01:Awesome, dude.
SPEAKER_00:So yeah, it was it was good. Um and so that cash flowed nicely. Um it does it does. Um and then um and then the next year we ended up finding a property uh side-by-side duplex, uh two-story side-by-side duplex in Oshkosh. Um, and we only saw that one of them was on the market and went and looked at it, and it was like 159,000. Um and we got there and saw that the the exact same duplex was right next to it was also for sale for 159. So that would have been, you know, what is that 320 total? Um my math is right. Well, we ended up offering them 270 and they took it. So yeah, so we got yeah, so two side-by-side duplexes, bought them for 135 a piece. Um, they did work, um, but yeah, it was it was pretty awesome. So um ended up having instant equity right away, which was awesome. And then now those those catch flow really nicely. They're catch flowing at like I think my rents right now are averaging like$1,500 a month. Um ish. So yeah, dude. Yeah.
SPEAKER_01:I love I love it. So those those side-by-side duplexes were listed on the MLS?
SPEAKER_00:They were listed on the MLS, and they they've been sitting for like 45 days or something like that. Um wasn't it's not the nicest place, not the nicest neighborhood in Oscash, so that's why they sat. But um but it worked. I don't know. I mean, I've had good luck with them.
SPEAKER_01:So I was just gonna say, I think that's an important lesson for people out there when listening to this. You know, like even with our deals on the wholesale list, I always tell people just put an offer if you like the if you like the the property or it fits future growth plans or whatever you're planning to do, you already ran the numbers, even if it's low. Like, I don't really get offended. Like now, if you come in and you offer ridiculously low like every week, yeah, we're gonna have a conversation and figure out like how are you running. It's more from a coaching perspective. We're we're gonna coach you and say, Hey, how are you running your numbers, bro? Like, let's figure this out because you you ain't gonna get any deals at these numbers, okay? So let's figure out how to make you more competitive, right? Not that I'm mad, I'm just gonna be like more of a coaching conversation with you. But on the MLS, and same thing, like if you're cons if if you have a realtor and you're consistently like way low and never getting deals, like they're they're gonna eventually lose patience with you, even the most patient agents out there. But if you're running numbers and you have legitimate reasons why you're offering a lower number than what you're offering, just law just offer it if you buy it. Like you're like in your case, 320. Now we look at that. Like if you offered 270 for two side by sides right now, and Oshkosh, like you'd get laughed out of town. You got a smoking deal though, bro. Like even at that time, that was still a really good deal for those those duplexes. It was. And now you've and now you've got an asset, you got to basically build your rehab probably into that number, right? Yep. And now you were able to, I would imagine, be able to pull all that cash out on those duplexes as well. So you have yeah, six units with none of your own money into it. Right.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, yeah. It's a I mean a no-brainer, right? Jeez. So yeah, it was it's good. Um yeah, and now the the the first one uh just appraised for um 189, and the other two were 224 and 240. Um so yeah. So they they've gone up in price and yeah, gained equity, and you know, and now then it's a matter of just keeping good renters in there and being a decent landlord, right?
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, that's why I love real estate, dude. I mean, this is the only investment I know of where you can have none of your own money into it, and it can still kick off a divid a dividend every month to you, basically, in the form of cash flow. Yeah, yeah. And you and you get tax benefits, and you're gaining equity. I mean, there's just so many benefits to it that it's just incredible to be able to do this.
SPEAKER_00:And the deeper you dive, the into what kind of benefits there are, and you know, learning all those things, the the better, the better those ultimately perform for you. And you know, especially if you have a business, if you have another business that brings in income, um, or or maybe even a high paying you know, W-2 or whatever, and you're trying to offset some of your you know, your W2 income um for taxes, you know, it it sure is nice to have those things that you can you know do a cost seg and you know, do and all those kinds of things that will lower your tax burden. So yeah, for sure.
SPEAKER_01:We just had uh my accountant was at our REI success meeting this last Tuesday at the time we're recording this, along with an attorney, and they were they were they did a great job kind of breaking down a lot of those benefits, and how do you get that that giant tax benefit with the big beautiful bill that was passed this year? They've accelerated it back to some levels that we haven't seen for being able to get to some depreciation since I think. Because it went back up to a one, right? 100% bonus depreciation. Yeah, yeah. So if you're listening to this and you're like, I have no clue what the hell bonus depreciation is or what that even means, you know. We have some other episodes on that with some accountants. I'd recommend go back and listen to those episodes. Just know, to me, it's the eighth wonder of the world. If you can buy real estate and then legally not pay income tax even on W-2 income, I mean, I don't know how it gets much better than that, to be honest with you. But there's some caveats to it. There's some there's some restrictions, and we don't have to get into the weeds of what you need to do in order to be able to get that hundred percent bonus appreciation. Again, we we lay that out pretty pretty detailed in other episodes. I'm sure YouTube's probably got a bunch of stuff on it, but it is amazing when you look at like how much you actually just don't pay an income tax. Yeah, it means you can take that money and then reinvest it in other deals.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah. You know, I I remember hearing um in regards to the tax, you know, everybody um I remember listening to a Robert Kiyosaki book. It was actually an audio book, and in there he said, There are no tax loopholes, there are just tax laws that you don't know about. And you know, though those everybody talks about like, well, you know, you know, the politicians have all these tax loopholes. No, they they make tax laws so that they can don't have to pay taxes. It's just our job to figure them out and tell them how to do it. So um and how to because it's all legal, you know, as long as you're doing the legal thing. Um all these things are legal, they're just they seem sometimes too good to be true.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah. As I get older, I'm less and less political, and I'm more and more of just trying to understand who's the politicians in place and what are the rules that they're putting in place, and then how do I play the game? How do I play the game they want me to play? Right. Yeah, yeah. I used to I used to be a big proponent before I got into real estate of just flat tax everybody, right? Everybody pays the same percentage, everything's fair, then everything's equal. And then I realized why they have a lot of these tax laws. It's to incentivize the behavior they want to they want to incentivize, right? Like if they want to drive, if they want to drive more manufacturing here in the country and create jobs and do all that stuff, they give incentives to manufacturing companies to build here and do all these things. They want people to buy and hold real estate, they offer more depreciation and you buy and you hold and you do these sort of things. So there's these different incentives that you take away that and you just go with a flat tax. I realize, like, well, they lose all the power to drive whatever economic drivers they want to drive. Right. And so by having these things and understanding what those tax laws are, as you said, I love that. That's not a loophole, it's just understanding the laws, it's understanding the game, how to play it, and how to get the most out of the game. And then it becomes a game and it becomes fun. Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. Well, that is awesome stuff, Ken. I'm excited about those deals for you. I mean, I love good Burr deals. Anybody who knows me, Burr is my favorite strategy in real estate. We actually have a free Burr course for anybody out there listening right now. Used to charge$1,500 for this thing. It is now or$1,900 or something. Anyway, it's now free. So if you're not on our buyer's list and you want that, you just go to the Wisconsin Discount Properties website, get added to the buyer's list, and ask about the Burr course, and we'll get it to you for free. So pretty awesome. You can create some equity, some cash flow, all this stuff, just like Kent did on these deals, and we'll teach y'all how to do it for free right here in our market. So pretty incredible stuff. Um, talk about what is the uh if you don't mind going down this road, Kent. You talked about you and your ex had done some of this stuff. So you've you've you you've gone through a divorce, unfortunate as that is in a lot of cases. Uh was there any kind of lessons as it relates to your real estate holdings that you kind of learned from from going through this divorce? And anybody who's maybe in this position, maybe in the process of a divorce or in the future. We all hope, you know, this doesn't happen to us, or why would we get married? We don't get married to get divorced, but shit happens. It happens. So what what if there's any lessons you can talk about, you know, um that you learn as it relates to the real estate stuff, then we can lean from.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, I think that the first thing would be is you know, have honest discussion. First, let me say the first thing is is that we are very amicable. Um and and you know, we are very focused on making sure that the the kids are as well taken care of as possible and everything. So the that was the main focus of you know, as we were as we were going through the divorce and everything. Um the biggest thing that, yeah, um, yes, it it is awesome. So first things first, you know, if if that does if if you do ever find yourself going through a divorce and there is properties, do anything you can to just realize that they're just things. Like a property is just a property. First of all, there's more to be bought. Um, so don't make it your don't make it your hill to die on. Your hill to die on is if you have kids, that's your hill to die on. That's my first bit of information is who cares? It's just another thing. Um, a property, uh something, whatever, it's just stuff. You can always get more stuff. Um so that's the first thing. Um, but in in regards to a little bit more tangible stuff, um the the other thing that I would say is if you are um if you're if you're getting your own lawyer in in the divorce, I would say make sure that that lawyer is well versed on the things that you do want to move forward with. So like um making sure that they understand the full scope of how these properties are being held. Are they being held in a in a you know a corporation or like in a in a S Corp or in an LLC? If they're just in your name, you know, that changes things too. So make sure that your um your attorney understands, you know, the full scope of it. Unfortunately, our attorney was not very helpful. Um we did we had a a shared attorney um because we had most of the stuff figured out ourselves already. We just had to basically go to the attorney and you know make sure that he was cool with it. Um he was um less helpful than I would have, in retrospect, much less helpful than I would have liked. Um but you know, it was my first time going through a divorce, and I hope that I don't ever have to do it again, but I had never gone through it. So I didn't know what I didn't know what was going on, I didn't know what to do. Um so but the the one thing that um so I did end up with the properties. I had to refinance the properties and give equity to my ex. Um give the the the uh give the refi uh you know half of the equity to my ex. But we had we came to the conclusion that you know she's you know she was cool that I kept the properties. There was no forced sale or anything. Um that was an agreement we had. She just wanted half the equity because we had built that together. Totally fair. That's totally fair.
SPEAKER_02:Yep.
SPEAKER_00:Um the big things that we did not take into account of at uh at the time was at some point I would be selling them, um which I probably will at some point sell them, and there will be realtor costs in there and there will be closing costs. So if we didn't had done a forced sale, we would have had to split those costs and then whatever was left over. Well, in in the process of it all, I didn't think about that. Um and so she ended up getting half the equity, but I should have gotten half of the closing costs of what a what the sale would have been. Um, you know. Yeah. So you know, closing costs and realtor fees, um, that should have been still half of that should have still been my money.
SPEAKER_01:So yeah, that makes sense. That's making sense. That's such a good lesson because I think I think it is important. Like nobody goes into a marriage planning to get divorced, right? Right. And and then when you're buying these properties, you're probably in a position where everything's good. Oh, yeah, nothing's ever gonna happen. And then when you are going through it, you're not thinking about some of these things, right? So anybody out there listening to this again, I I don't I don't think we're having this conversation because we want you to go get a divorce tomorrow or something, but it it happens, it's life, and it's things to think about, you know. And hopefully this is a little nugget that'll you'll carry with you if that ever does, you know, become your situation. And and can't sharing this will maybe ring back true. Oh, yeah, I heard that once, and I gotta remember those closing costs and realtor fees, right?
SPEAKER_00:I mean, and I mean, realistically, I mean, if you're let's say you have a portfolio of five, six, seven, eight, ten properties. I mean, if you had to force if you if there was a forced sale in the divorce, and let's just say they're even if they're all worth 200,000. I mean, you know, you got what, you know, two, you know, what two million dollars worth of properties that you're selling, I mean, percentages of two million dollars adds up real fast. So yeah, you know, it's not just a small thing.
SPEAKER_01:So yeah, yeah. If you're paying full retail for your commissions, which again, for those of you out there that listen to the show, you know, never pay full realtor commissions. Okay. And you all my realtor friends, sorry, but you know it's true. Uh anyway, if you are though, and you figure probably roughly one and a half percent to two percent for closing costs, that's like just factor eight percent roughly of two million dollars. That's a big chunk of cash, man. Yeah, yeah, that's a big chunk of cash.
SPEAKER_00:And so so four percent, you know, if we were splitting those costs, it'd be four percent back to me. Um, so you know, it is what it is. You live and learn, and um, you know, and if somebody else can learn without having to go to, you know, have that loss, then hopefully somebody will remember it.
SPEAKER_01:So absolutely, buddy. Well, I appreciate you sharing that. I know sometimes these topics can be a little you know touchy for people to discuss on the show and that kind of thing. So I appreciate you kind of putting that out there and being being able to give some nuggets for people out there listening to this. So you're you're a go-giver, brother. I appreciate that. Um, as we start to wrap here, Kent, you know, we're gonna ask you our final question. We ask every guest, but before we do that, any final kind of thoughts, words on either the real estate thing, contractor thing we discussed, anything we didn't get to yet that you want to share with the audience?
SPEAKER_00:You know me, I could talk to you for another four hours. Um, so you're you're asking me to choose one thing. Um you know I wouldn't know if I have anything specific. I guess the the the biggest bit of information I would say is if you're thinking about getting into real estate, just start start the process. And that's as easy as just start running numbers. Find somebody that has an idea of what they're doing and run some numbers. Run what you know. I I mean I I probably ran 150, you know, I ran numbers on about 150 houses before I ended up buying one. Um because I wanted to understand the scope of what things would actually cost. I actually called other contractor friends of mine and said, hey, you know, how much would it cost to paint a three-bedroom house, you know, or a three-bedroom house that you know is about 1,100 square feet? Generally speaking, can you give me a range? Yes. And just yeah, just ask them the general ideas, and it's always going to be a little bit off, but if you can start putting together your numbers before you actually buy it, um, when you do buy one, your numbers are probably gonna be pretty spot on. Um just get in the get in the game. You know, yes, there's it's there's a lot of people, you know, Corey in your community, and there's we have there's other RIAs in the area, and there's you know, there's so many good people that are very willing to help. Um it can be cutthroat if you decide to make a cutthroat, but I'll tell you what, most people don't like to work with cutthroat people, so we usually are just cheering each other on to get in the game. Um and so just ask for help, you know. Yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_01:So I I love that. There's a couple a couple key points to what Kent just said, guys. Number one, the calling around thing and asking people to give you just a general rough ball idea, genius, right? And that to me, when I got started, Kent, I had no handy experience. I know nothing about fixing anything. Any project that I've tried to do since we've bought real estate has just cost me more money than it was saving me because I had to get somebody come fix my mess ups. So getting into it, that was my biggest fear was like, oh my gosh, what if the rehab is actually three times what I thought it was gonna be, right? How do I even figure out, like, where do I even start to figure out what rehab costs are gonna be? And what Kent talked about was calling some some friends of his in the in the space and just getting some rough ball ideas. Once I figured that out with that first contractor I talked about, Ken, I that's what I did when we had a project for him. I said, hey, roughly to put LVP flooring in a place, what should I budget like square foot? Back then he's like, I don't know,$1.50, two bucks to for the material, maybe a dollar fifty, two bucks to install. I was like, perfect. That's all I needed. Thank you. Now I can go on, and when I'm budgeting floors, I know okay, boom, that's it. How much square feet? Yeah, easy peasy, right? Windows, how much would it cost to replace some windows? Ah, roughly budget this for windows, and wrapping is this. And I was like, okay, boom, got that, like locked in here. Yeah, once I got like the the bigger basic kind of repetitive things you're gonna see consistently showing up on a lot of these deals, it just became like every house I could I could then just walk through and like, ah, that's about 30 grand in here. Right. I could do it just from walking through a house or watching a video, like that's probably about 30 G's, yeah, whatever it was gonna be. Yeah, that actually used to be our joke, Carrie, and I we'd always joke like, how much do you think the rehab's gonna be? I'm like, probably about 30. And then our contractor, we'd have them go through, like, hey, give us a rough ball quote. He's like, Yeah, do this and this. I think it's gonna be about 30 grand. Like every time that was the old joke.
SPEAKER_00:But yeah, yeah. I mean, but in all honesty, when you walk through enough properties and you see enough repairs and you you've ran numbers enough times, I mean, give or take 10%, but you know, you'll you do it often enough, you're gonna start you're gonna start getting it. Um but also have some contingency too.
SPEAKER_01:So yeah, and and I think there's a um that for for for those of you brand new, if you don't know like the things that you can't see or that don't even inspectors like they miss stuff, they're not getting they're not ripping walls apart and doing things. So if your scope of work is gonna be starting to rip walls down and do different things, you're gonna find some other stuff, probably, right? You ever watch those HG TV shows and they're like five thousand dollars? Oh my god. That's the reality of it. So just but you know, budget for that if your scope of work is gonna be more than just you know some light things that are pretty easy to see. But ultimately, once I learned, Kent, what are the things that could blow my budget up? There's only a few of them, right? It's like a foundation thing that could that could cost a lot. If you're out in the country, a new well or septic, those are two things that can be really expensive. Roof even, isn't that like it's not even that big of I mean it is, but usually you're gonna be able to tell if you need a new roof or not pretty easily. Yep. Um outside of that, there's not a lot else that's huge that's gonna blow it up.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, I would say the only other thing that I've seen sometimes is um when you do pull a permit and the inspector decides to walk through and sees something that maybe he has a little, you know, bean is bonnet about something, and you know, and so that sometimes can happen. You don't see it too often, but it it can.
SPEAKER_01:So yeah, yeah. And the only other thing I would say too is if you if you don't have a friend, like Ken's talking about he had some friends in the space and you're just calling a random contractor, don't just take that one contractor's price and and then that is the holy grail. These things vary vastly depending on who you're talking to. And again, quality is gonna be the factor, but also the price is a big factor. You know, I got a quote from a guy recently on a on a paver, like putting some papers in for a hot tub. The price difference on that was complete, like I mean, just astronomical from some people, and other people you're like, well, that seems too cheap. Uh-huh. So it varies a lot. So just if you know like quality people, like Kent's talking about you got some friends, those are your best people because they're gonna shoot you straight. But even they might be high price, who knows, right? So shop those things around a little bit and kind of get a feel for what's the average, or kind of if you see keep seeing a consistent price from people, it's probably a pretty good idea that you can use that as a as a barometer to use. But Kent, our last question. We ask every guest. And part of the reason we started doing this is we we want people from outside of Wisconsin to know about Wisconsin because we think it's pretty cool here. You know, we're kind of off the grid. I don't I don't know what people think of Wisconsin. Even they they hear Green Bay Packers and they're like, oh cool, Green Bay, what what state is that? They don't even know it's Wisconsin. Right. So we like to tell them a little bit about it. Do you have a favorite Wisconsin tradition or place here in this great state you like to visit?
SPEAKER_00:You know, I am a huge sucker for going fishing up north. Um I I love, I mean, we have so many gorgeous lakes up up north, especially this time of year. Get up there and see the see all the leaves, man. Holy cow, it's gorgeous. Um I grew up on Lake Archibald or Archibald Lake. Um and yeah, my grandpa, my great grandpa and grandma had a place, and man, oh man. I and then later in life I had some friends that ended up with had that had a cabin on the same lake. So I've been going up to that lake since I was like three. Oh my goodness, yeah. Um but yeah, I mean the just going up to, you know, going up north, and you know, there's trails and there's um, you know, if you like, you know, going on a side-by-side or four-wheeling, you know, um hunting up up north. I'm not I'm not a big hunter, I just never got into it because I don't like being cold. So I don't like sitting, you know, I don't like sitting around waiting for a deer to pass me. Uh that's just my own thing. But um getting out on the lake, and there's just so many great lakes up there up north. So true.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, very true.
SPEAKER_00:We have a good we have a lot of good outdoors, that's for sure.
SPEAKER_01:We do. I I uh up north Wisconsin is like my heaven on earth, man. We travel a lot, and I always still go back to like where do I feel the most peace? It's usually like on a quiet lake somewhere in northern Wisconsin. Yep, yep. Turn the phone off and uh and just be out on the lake and stuff. A lot of times you don't even have to turn it off because you don't get reception anyway. So true.
SPEAKER_02:That's so true. Yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_01:Well, Ken, if anybody wants to get a hold of you to talk about your experience in real estate or talk about maybe having you help them on a project with some flooring or whatever you know you guys do, what's the best way for them to get in contact with you, my man?
SPEAKER_00:Uh you can honestly they can get give my cell phone a call. Um, by all means. Do you do you recommend giving out a cell phone on the podcast? Or uh would it be easier to that's up to you, my friend.
SPEAKER_01:That's totally every guess is a little different. We definitely have certainly had it, and nobody has been like, damn, I shouldn't have given my phone out. Right, right, right.
SPEAKER_00:Well, you know, most people have it anyway. So um it's uh so my cell phone is 920 716 8031. Um that is the easiest and best way to get a hold of me. Um so if you have any questions about real estate or um, you know, wood floors that need to be refinished or LVP or LVT that needs to be installed or you know, really anything with you know wood wood floors and um you know LVP, we we we take care of it.
SPEAKER_01:So awesome, buddy. Do you guys have a website? Are you on the world wide web?
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, so uh it's mrsandless.com, mrsandless.com. Um, and then Facebook page as well, just look up uh Northeast Wisconsin Mr. Sandless or Northeast W I Mr. Sandless. So perfect.
SPEAKER_01:Awesome, man. Appreciate you being on, Kent, and taking time to drop some nuggets for the audience. I know this is gonna be another popular one here uh after having this conversation. I I know people are gonna share this thing and they're gonna get some value out of it. So that said, if you guys did get some value, please share the episode. If you aren't subscribed to us yet on YouTube and you're checking out the video here, please hit the old subscribe button. I know this is kind of cliche, everybody says this on their shows, but the reason we say it is because it helps us a lot and it it really means a lot to us when you guys rate, review, and subscribe to the show. So uh appreciate you guys doing that. As Kent said, if you guys need some help with flooring, hit up Kent. If you are out there listening to this and you're not ready to start getting deals sent to you yet, you're just kind of dipping your toe in real estate, you're sucking up these episodes, kind of like, man, should I dive into this thing? You can also just go to our website and fill out the contact us form, and uh we'll just reach out to you, have a conversation, figure out your goals, what are you trying to accomplish, feel out if real estate's for you, and if that's true, we'll we'll help guide you in the right direction and get you some coaching. So until we see you guys on the next episode, appreciate you tuning in. Uh looking forward to what we got coming up next.
