The Wisconsin Investor
Each week, we bring you interviews with some of Wisconsin's top real estate investors who share their tips, tricks, and strategies that you can implement right away. This show is dedicated to helping Wisconsin real estate investors elevate their game. Along with interviews, I'll also dive into hot topics in solo episodes and feature experts from various real estate sectors across Wisconsin.
The Wisconsin Investor
From $10/Hour Apprentice to 64 Rental Units
What if you could buy your very first duplex with zero dollars out of pocket—while making just $10 an hour as an apprentice? That’s exactly how Corey Paszkiewicz launched his real estate journey over 20 years ago. Today, he owns 64 rental units with roughly 50% equity across the board—and in this episode, he breaks down how you can follow a similar path.
🔥 Inside This Episode:
- 🏡 How Corey bought his first duplex using creative financing + other people’s money
- 💪 The mindset shifts that helped him survive every market cycle from pre-2008 to today’s high-interest rates
- 📲 Why he no longer spends big on marketing—and gets most deals through social media + word of mouth
- 💰 A full breakdown of the BRRRR strategy that allowed him to scale with minimal personal capital
- 🔑 How private lending relationships develop naturally once you build a track record
- 📈 Why buying at a deep discount matters more than obsessing over cash flow
- 🏘️ The overlooked opportunity in Section 8 rentals: above-market rents + guaranteed payments
Whether you’re just getting started or looking to scale, this is a masterclass in building wealth through resilience, reputation, and creative problem-solving.
What's up everybody? Welcome back to another episode of the Wisconsin Investor Podcast. I'm your host, corey Raymond, excited to bring you guys another amazing guest today, as usual. Before I do that, though, as I do on almost every episode, I'm going to give a little plug to our sponsor, wisconsin Discount Properties, today. Every week, guys, we're putting deals in your inbox at 6 am Monday morning. So if you're on our buyers list, you already know that. If you're not on our buyers list, that means you're missing out on opportunities.
Speaker 1:A lot of the complaints or struggles investors have is how do I find more deals? Right? Corey and I were actually just talking a little bit about that before we hit record of getting more deal flow. Well, we got it for you. If you're buying in Northeast Wisconsin, so head to the website wisconsindiscountpropertiescom, put your information in and we'll get you added to the buyers list quickly and you'll start seeing those deals. It's free, so you'll start seeing those deals in your inbox right away. With that, let me welcome in my other Corey here. Corey, I'm not even going to try to pronounce your last name, so if you can do that for the audience, please do Sounds good.
Speaker 1:Corey Paskavage Paskavage.
Speaker 2:Paskavage yep.
Speaker 1:Okay, what's the heritage of the Paskavage?
Speaker 2:It's a little bit of everything, but mostly Polish. My grandma has a lot of different mitzvahs in there, but primarily Polish.
Speaker 1:Okay, I thought so. I grew up in Pulaski, and Pulaski big-time Polish. We got polka pass every year. It's a big-time Polish place. I thought that might've been a little Polish, but I don't know. Well, corey, tell everybody a little bit about you. You're, you're down in the Oconomowoc area, correct? Yep?
Speaker 2:Yeah, so we, we moved out to Oconomowoc. I primarily invest in the Milwaukee market. I've been investing 20 years or so Back then when I started getting to have all the podcasts and social media and how to learn what we do now. So I kind of had to figure out a lot of everything myself on a hard way. I didn't have wealthy parents or wealthy family. I didn't have people really invest in real estate. So for me, when I first started, I was actually in my electrical apprenticeship, so I used to be an electrician, actually in my electrical apprenticeship, so I used to be electrician.
Speaker 2:Um, one of the apprentices in my class, his uncle kind of like nudged us to like, hey, you guys should probably invest in real estate, and ended up buying a duplex house, hacked it um, lived in half, rented out the other um, and that's kind of how I got my start a little over 20 years ago. Um did the same thing a year later, okay, and kind of continue on my third property. I mean I don't know if you want to hear the whole story. Yeah, I mean I don't know. I guess it's kind of cool. You know how you always hear people buying these properties, no money down and all that my first two deals, first three deals I did and I didn't even know I did it.
Speaker 2:So my very first one I got I actually got a $5,000 loan from my buddy's uncle Okay, years to pay it off. But I also got a $5,000 grant from the government Back then it was like a WIDA type of loan. So I actually lived in that property. So basically I didn't need to bring any funds to the table, had a little over to do a little bit of updating to the duplex. Some need to bring any funds to the table, had a little over to do a little bit of updating to the duplex, some paint and re-finish flooring, sure, but I did all that work myself. Um, and that's kind of how I got into my first deal. That's my second deal. I did the same thing. I bought that no money out of pocket. Um, my first one. I mean, I wasn't making a lot as a first year electrical apprentice back then. I was making like 10 bucks an hour.
Speaker 1:So it wasn't a lot of money.
Speaker 2:But I bought it no money out of pocket. So it's kind of cool. That is really cool, yeah. Second one so this was back before everything crashed, but this is when banks were giving money away. So we did two loans on it. I did a loan for 80% and a loan for 20% and same thing I got and same thing I got into that one, and no money out of pocket. I still own both those today. They're both duplexes and they've pretty much doubled in value or pretty close to that now. Um, but I own those today and that's kind of how I got my start.
Speaker 2:My my third one was kind of a unique. You know I had that. I I guess we grew up kind of. I want want to say before like middle class, like my parents, struggle a lot. They worked for big companies and they'd either get laid off or the company would downsize. So like I saw my parents struggle and for me I always wanted more. I didn't want that one. I have to worry about money. I didn't want that to happen.
Speaker 2:So I'm like I had the entrepreneur side in me. So my next property there's like an authentic Philly cheesesteak type of restaurant down in our area. So I actually bought a building, had a storefront in the front and an apartment in back, so I actually lived in an apartment and I opened up my own like Philly cheesesteak and custard stand. I worked full time as an electrician. So I did that for about a year and then I I ended up closing it down. Just a lot of work, I mean, I was working a full-time electrician but then I transferred to like the oak creek power plant and there we were working mandatory 60, 70 up to like 84 hours a week. It was whoa crazy.
Speaker 2:I mean for a month I worked seven 12 hour shifts and it's just a lot. Can you even do?
Speaker 2:that is that legal yeah, I mean, yeah, they I don't know when they're building the power plant it was. It's kind of cool see everybody's like mandatory, like eight hour shifts, um, they're actually mandatory. 60 hours a week is like what we are working and you got a per diem if you didn't miss any work. And then if you traveled I forget the distance, maybe more than 50 miles they give you another per diem. So I didn't miss any work. And then if you traveled I forget the distance, maybe more than 50 miles they give you another per diem. So I think I got I was pretty close to it, but I think I got like another 125 bucks a week because I I didn't miss any work. If you missed work, they would like lay you off. And this is kind of right before the crash, I was working there a little over two years, um, but like there's 300 electricians laid off and the boats looking for work near the end of it and I'm like most guys, they didn't miss work, you know, yeah, it'd be a long time waiting.
Speaker 1:Yeah, you miss work. That means you're going to be missing work for a long time.
Speaker 2:Yeah, so, but eventually I kind of got burnt out of doing all that. I just started turning down some of the overtime. It was near the end of the job and I was building like a network marketing business on the side, okay, and I had almost like a full-time teacher-type salary job, yeah yeah. So I'm like, okay, I don't need to like work all these hours, I'm doing that. And basically I ended up getting laid off. When I up getting laid off, um, I got laid off. I ended up starting like fitness boot camps okay, one dance studio, I grew it to another dance studio, um, and then I ended up opening up a crossfit gym okay that whole time I had always saved my rental income and I'd save my network marketing income and okay how I got started.
Speaker 2:I mean, I didn't know about using other people's money, even though I did my my first two deals yeah, you kind of did it by accident on the first one.
Speaker 1:You didn't even know what you did. Yeah, right.
Speaker 2:Yeah. So it was kind of weird like that. So I would just save my income from network marketing and all my rental income and as soon as I have enough money for down payment, I'd go buy another property. Okay, kind of how I started, started it and after I got laid off like one of my next properties, like I didn't have money to or I didn't have two. I had the money but I didn't have two years income.
Speaker 2:And that's back when banks were tighter and before like the dscr type of loans and all that um. So actually you know, I think one thing is like investors and what we do in real estate, I mean you got to learn to be resilient and like figure a way out. I mean we're problem solvers. So like, yeah, on a great deal on a duplex I had the money bank wouldn't find it finance me, how do I do it? So I ended up buying it in my brother's name and then he actually lived in like part of it and yeah, we did that. And then eventually, a couple of years later, I refinanced it into mine. That's why I ended up getting that property, just figuring it out, man.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I mean that's probably the biggest thing I feel like we got to learn as investors, we solve problems and we got to be resilient, because we get thrown so many curveballs in life For sure, real estate investing and all that.
Speaker 1:Well, dude, you've been through pretty much every market. I feel like now I feel, yeah, through the boom, the bust, now the boom, now the high rates, the covid rates, like I mean everything that that could be thrown at you, dude, you've kind of seen it all now, so you've got, you've got all that experience now, 20 years later, to to lend off or to go off of. And yeah, I think that is what you said. That's one of the biggest things I think as an investor, like there's always a way to do it. It's just figuring it out Right, like okay, well, uh, like political stuff, like I I got like a little political discussion with with some people, some friends I know, that are on different, different beliefs than I have.
Speaker 1:We actually were able to have a good conversation and I was like you know what? I don't really care, and maybe this is bad, you know patriotism for me, but I'm like I don't really care who's in office or what their policy is. I just have to understand what their policy is or whoever's making the rules, and then I have to just play the game right. If I play the game, it's fine. We'll always figure a way out to win right, yep, but you just got to figure out whatever they're going to throw at you. Okay, now how do I use that to? To benefit right and the same thing.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it doesn't matter like so many people get wound up, like who's in office will be a little easier, harder, depending who it could be, but I mean it doesn't really affect what we do. I mean you've got to kind of put your blinders up and just mind like focus on your business and go, you know yep, yep, and like when rates went up, it was like, oh crap, what are we gonna do now?
Speaker 1:because, like, a lot of investors stopped buying deals. We're like, well, we'll just flip our own, because there was still a lot of yeah, a lot of demand for housing. So we started doing a lot of our own flips and, like you, just got to pivot and be nimble in this business. I feel like you can't be so rigid. Sometimes they'll be like this is all I do and this is the only way I do things, forever and always, because it's you know, as you said, you were doing deals when they were giving you money to buy deals.
Speaker 2:Yeah, live it you know, rates are a lot higher too. I mean they're in the upper sixes up to like seven. So like I was buying when rates were, rates were high and rents are a lot lower too. Now rates are a little high but rents are way higher. So I mean there's always a deal out there, you just gotta buy it right. And I mean I think that's one thing that helped me is like you just gotta stay consistent, know your numbers and get after it really I mean, yep, for sure what?
Speaker 1:uh, going back to, I'm interested to hear, like when you got started so was it really just that from that conversation of the uncle being like hey, hey, you guys should do this? And you're like, yeah, let's do this? Or was there other things happening that pushed you into doing this.
Speaker 2:So I've always wanted to invest in real estate and like part of it was like watching those infomercials you see on TV. I was probably 18. And I bought a book and it came in like a little binder, a I don't know spiral binder type thing that they make. So I bought one of those off like tv and I read it, for like all that info was like over my head and was talking about hard money lenders and all this.
Speaker 2:I'm like I don't know what that is. I'm like hard money lender sounds crazy. You're paying all this interest and like yeah, I didn't know anybody really doing it, uh, and yeah, so he kind of I guess he, the uncle, wasn't really in real estate but he had some condos years ago and he's more. He owned like a candy store, um, and he invested a lot in a stock market, but he's like you know you should buy a duplex and like his nephew bought one and then I was same time kind of looking for one and it's kind of really like the start of it and I just kept going and like his nephew really didn't, but I kept going.
Speaker 2:I'm like, okay, that's like once you I mean I lived in it and like was paying more, more than half my mortgage payments. I'm like, okay, this is like it's kind of a turning point and just splits, like okay, I can do something with this. And yeah, it helped me, like when I was laid off, like we had three rentals basically, um, and I was that my network marketing money, like it saved me from, like it kept me afloat, you know.
Speaker 1:So like, yeah, yeah, you're pretty much already like kind of if your expenses didn't go too high. I mean you're basically financially free already, off three duplexes and network marketing income, you know.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it cool. Yeah. So I'm like, wow, okay, I'm on to something. I just, over the years, like I had to learn how to like, okay, I learned more about the hard money line and then pick up private lenders and things like that, and now, like I've been like full-time last 10 years, um, so we've branched out and um, do, I guess, a lot of things. So I'm, I am a realtor, so I do that, and I've been a realtor going on nine, 10 years now.
Speaker 2:Okay, actually 10 years now and when I first became an agent I worked with everybody. I do a lot of volume 50 plus deals a year, which is a lot for an agent, a realtor, yeah, and it would be like 50-50. Sometimes it'd be more 50% investors and then regular people and it would go up and down, but investors are always buying or selling. They're always consistent. So when everybody else is slow, I'm still staying busy because investors are. They don't stop. You know, we don't stop, we're always buying. Yeah, we got the itch, yeah, exactly. So I've been doing that full time last 10 years and then I started doing more like fits and flips and, um, I did a little bit of wholesale in there and now we do a lot of I mean, we still have rentals. So we have 64 rental units right now.
Speaker 2:Um, I'm a little pickier now, like with what I purchase two sides that people always ask me, like what are my goals now? And it's like I go back and forth. So right now I keep buying. I like single families, but I keep buying um rental properties if I need them, free, basically, yeah, so I'm just burying them. That way it's kind of what I'm doing stacking single families, but I'm also looking for some bigger, either apartment type buildings, um, a little bit nicer areas closer to me, or, like commercial type of buildings. So I'm kind of saving my funds for that and I have property that I'd offload to trade up if I need to sure, um, but in the meantime, like, like you said, we, we keep buying, we're, we have that itch to keep going. So I'm, if I can, buy a rental property and be into it very little to no money out of pocket. That's what I'm doing. Yeah, up in homes is kind of my primary and I'm working with investors as like an agent.
Speaker 1:Yeah, you know it's kind of crazy cory's like you and I we've we've been friends on facebook forever. We were talking about this before we hit record like we never actually like had a conversation your new milwaukee market we're like green bay, appleton, northeast wisconsin. So we, like I, always respected what you were doing from a distance and I saw we're very similar in the way that we love getting properties for free. Now, if I'm talking to you, I'm like dude, we have really eerie similar stories. I did network marketing leading up to getting into real estate investing. I had a gym that was kind of like a CrossFit thing. I'm listening and I was like wait a minute Am.
Speaker 2:I on that side or this side? I didn't realize you had a gym too and all that.
Speaker 1:Okay, yeah, yeah, yeah, so I went to school for kinesiology in Eau Claire and then and then did a little stint with the Wisconsin Badger football team doing strength and conditioning and I thought that was like my dream job. I was like, yeah, my dream job. I hated it, dude, it's terrible, uh. And then I moved home and I got an opportunity to like start training this dude. And then, uh, uh, he had like a little gym in the back of his office and he's like you should start training my employees. And I was like sure, so I started. I kind of created like my own crossfit style, okay, like circuit style, but yeah, dude. Then that all led up to like doing some network marketing. And then I was like I don't really, I didn't really like the network marketing thing. After like five years we were doing the same thing, like we're making good money, but we're doing good, I mean we're making almost six figures at one time and then a lot of like
Speaker 2:so it's, it's good, but like it's, it changed a lot over the years. We don't really we don't do it now. Um yeah, um, one of the companies I was with like a lot of stuff happened. Basically this compensation plan disappeared. So that set a lot of people aside. But for me, like I knew it wasn't going to be like the thing, it's like I knew there was something else. I'd always invest my money into real estate, cause that's kind of a sure guaranteed, whether it's longterm investment or cashflow. I mean, it's the way most people get wealthy and time freedom.
Speaker 1:So yeah, yeah, yeah for sure. Yeah, that, yeah for sure. Yeah, that that was kind of the same thing. Like I'll say this, though like I never regret our network marketing time like I learned so much about like personal development. Just you know, like I was always in sales but I learned some new things with with sales through that process and like it was really good. I really enjoyed the.
Speaker 2:The personal growth aspect of what the network marketing company we were with was like really promoting um it's probably the biggest takeaway, like I mean, I recommend people, if they can find a good one, just to learn that, because you don't learn that in like other things. I mean I feel like going from network marketing to being like a realtor or an agent, like you're like basically self-employed. Most people are working a nine-to-five, it's like. And then you're like I feel a lot of people want to rush to like get out, get out of their nine to five, but they don't know how to employ themselves. They don't have the personal growth and development to get them to that next level and like to employ themselves. So that's the biggest thing that market marketing helped me with, more than anything you know is, yeah, personal growth and learning and how to employ yourself.
Speaker 1:Yep for sure. So, like I said, I think you're right, it changed a lot. The only thing I regret is all my social media posts during that time frame. I'm like can?
Speaker 2:I go back and believe right, I know there's a lot of stuff. I'm like right now, when I see people do stuff, I'm like that was probably me in a few days. I'm like, ah, that was me.
Speaker 1:10 years ago or 15 years ago, gosh.
Speaker 2:Gosh, I don't do that anymore. Same yeah, that's awesome.
Speaker 1:So we're very similar. We're very similar is what I'm finding out, corey, in this, not only do we share a name, but a lot of other similarities here. You've got a lot less gray hair than I do, though.
Speaker 2:I don't know I'm getting stressed out the last year or two.
Speaker 1:Let's creep it up on you. Yeah, yeah, talk about the. Uh. So you're doing about 10 to 20 flips a year right now. Talk about how you're finding those, because I we talked a little bit about this, but I think there's some value here for the audience to hear this so I did a lot like so back in 2020, like I started doing a little bit of wholesaling, like the end of 2020.
Speaker 2:Um, back then I would, we pretty much just did text messaging. Um. Back then it was like you could send 300, 300 to 400 text messages out and like get a deal. It was pretty cool and I didn't. I feel like that market, since it's so low barrier to entry. It got flooded and oversaturated and regulations like you could send 10 000 out and not get anything.
Speaker 2:You know so I kind of I we stopped doing that and then, um, I had cold callers and that would be hit or miss too, um, so I was doing a little bit of that, but I'd get a couple deals here, wholesale one here and there, keep one as a rental and that's kind of how I started doing that my own marketing back in 2020. Um, but I put a lot out on social media too, so I'll share my ups and downs and like what I'm doing and closing and I get a lot of deals actually sent to me, um, from just people. I get a lot of, I buy a lot from other wholesalers and all that. So I actually last two years.
Speaker 2:I haven't really done any of my own marketing. It's all word of mouth, all referrals, wholesalers, people bring me deals just because I have a good reputation of like I'm always going to close. I try to make it easy for people. You know, I feel like that's half the battle. I mean, you get some buyers that can be hard to work with People. Whether you're a buyer or seller, they don't want to work with you if you're going to be difficult. You or seller, they don't want to work with you if you're gonna be difficult, you know. Yeah, so I get a lot of my deals right now, word of mouth, and I know, as we were just talking, I gotta I'm gonna start doing some marketing again and kind of gotta get my systems down and be a little bit more consistent. But, um, right now that's all I've been doing that way, and then yeah, I mean, that's the.
Speaker 1:that's such a valuable thing that, like the, the reason I wanted you to bring that up, corey, is like your cost of marketing is nothing right now, it's just your time you know and like, yet juices that return pretty significantly.
Speaker 1:I know for us we're spending about 50 or 60 grand a month in marketing so we have I mean before we're even profitable in a month just to cover the marketing. We gotta be at 60 grand, not counting employee overhead and all this other stuff. But, like for me, if I can get some deals in there that are referral deals, that didn't cost me anything for marketing right Like that just helps us so much, so much greater on that profitability standpoint.
Speaker 1:You don't have any marketing right now, so anything you're getting is just purely to the bottom line after you take everything out for your. You know obviously the flip expenses, but just the acquisitions cost is so cheap for you. That's amazing. So.
Speaker 1:I think that's really important. I stress that on almost every episode at the end. You know, hey guys, if you've got value out of this, share it. Not only for us, but it helps you. You know, get let people know what you're doing and blah, blah, blah. And it's true, I don't say it to manipulate people to share the show. It's like it really does help you. If you're consistent on social media, you build a brand and people get to know you. That's how I always see your posts. I'm not even on Facebook anymore, but if I have to go on there once in a while with one of our teammates to look at my page and help out, I'll see your posts and that's you at the title company all the time with a big smile on your face.
Speaker 2:Got no deal, no money down, right. I'm like, yeah, know, I do those that, let people know I'm. I consistently buy it. So like, kind of going back to what we're talking, it's been like every market, you know, so like you can find deals in every market, you can always buy and all that. So like that helps. And then I also try to create value to you and I don't always put all that on um, like maybe facebook, but I'll have stuff on tiktok and okay, and I mean I try to do a lot of it on facebook too, and I have youtube as well, so I'm trying to do a little bit longer form as well, but it's hard when you're doing everything else too. I mean it's almost like a full-time job. So like, yeah, it doesn't cost money, but it's a lot of time right doing that. You know filming stuff and editing and yeah, all that. So like I don't. I don't know how some of the people do that and do like yeah, I get busy.
Speaker 1:I mean it's hard like, yeah, you know and to keep coming up with content and all that stuff like it is a full-time game yeah, well, that's usually the thing we see.
Speaker 1:Right, like, if the cost of the marketing is low, typically you're going to have to have a high time investment, right, and there's that balance, right like the cut. Like we have TV commercials costs really high. But my time is nothing because I have a third party that does all the ad buys. We filmed it once done and now they just they do it, but that cost is high, you know. So we're seeing that we did see same thing with texting.
Speaker 1:We cut texting this year at the start of the year because a lot of the regulations and stuff we just didn't want to. We were compliant, we were fine, but I just didn't want to even have any battles with it. What I ended up seeing was actually we're doing way more deals this year by cutting cold call and text, at least outsourcing that stuff. We still do some cold calling internally when our guys have time, yeah, but uh, but now what they got? The leads that they're following up on are like really quality leads. Yeah, so we're converting at a super high rate because they're not getting bogged down with all you know. You know how it is with texas like yeah, for the right price I'd sell.
Speaker 1:Well, you got to follow up on that.
Speaker 2:You know exactly same with the cold call. That's kind of why I stop. It's like the quality is not real high and both. So I'm like yeah, yeah yeah, but I love your.
Speaker 1:I love the referral piece. I think that's a huge nugget for the audience to be listening to. Is just social media branding telling people what you're doing you know you're talking about. Now on this podcast, you're looking for some bigger multi-family stuff. Right, yep, there it is like now anybody who knows in that milwaukee market listening to this episode. You got a buyer right here.
Speaker 2:It was quality buyer yeah, milwaukee, ideally like waukesha county, washington county. Those areas were trying to get out of milwaukee county for the bigger deals. Yeah, we do a lot of um a lot of more tenant friendly there what's that?
Speaker 1:a little more tenant friendly there.
Speaker 2:Yeah I've been um, I do a lot of like section eight rentals now too. I've been switched over the last year, year and a half or so and it's going really well. But I feel like on a multifamily property I building a little bit higher quality type properties here and whether it's multifamily or even like commercial light industrial type, there's a couple I've been looking at and trying to work on.
Speaker 1:Yeah yeah, Talk about the section eight stuff. I think that's another topic we don't talk enough about. Like there's some, there's some stigma around section eight, negative connotations with it, what you know you just mentioned. It's been going really well. Talk a little bit about what are the pros cons of doing a Section 8?. What is Section 8, if you can explain Section 8 for the people who don't know this Basically Section 8 rentals.
Speaker 2:basically the government's paying rent for the tenant. Do they pay 100% of the rent? Yes and no. Typically they're paying between 70% to 100% of somebody's rent. It's based off the tenant's income and all that. I have a couple that I think I have one that pays I don't know, like $8 or something like that. It's real low and I pay 20, and then I have a couple people that pay a couple hundred dollars, like $300. So it depends on the tenant's current income. But then section eight they'll pay the remainder of that. So property, say, it runs for fifteen hundred dollars a month, maybe section eight's paying twelve or thirteen hundred. The tenant pays the difference.
Speaker 2:Okay, um. So basically how it works, I mean you have an occupied unit. You don't have to have like a section eight property necessarily. I think a lot of people think, oh, I need to qualify my property for section 8. You can find the tenant first, um, and then you fill out a request for tenancy form okay, submit that to their caseworker and whatnot, um, and then after that all that's filled in, then they'll come out and they do inspect the property. So you don't have to do it before.
Speaker 2:Um, they're basically looking if buyers or if you guys are familiar with, like fha type of financing, it's kind of those safety things, so they're making sure there's no like peeling paint, no prep windows, you gotta have your smoke detectors, co2 detectors and in the right places. Um, it's just safety features and make making sure the property's not falling down and Stuff. You should probably do anyway, exactly. I mean so for us, I mean to switch it over. I mean we try to keep our properties good, so a lot of times they might flag something little. I mean, if you have wooden windows, you have to make sure you have locks on them.
Speaker 2:But I think now they actually check the outlets and make sure polarity is right and little things like that. So they're a little bit trickier and it might vary slightly depending on, depending on your market, um, but I mean, for the most part, if you're keeping care of your properties, I mean everybody should be fine. They, I don't know, there's always something they could flag, but it's usually pretty minor. It might be like, I don't know, loose handrail or I don't know, yeah, tile or something you know. Yeah, yeah, most are. It's minor. And then if, if it gets played, they let you correct it and I'll come back and check it out and, um, it's pretty simple, honestly, yeah so what are the?
Speaker 1:what are the for the people that are like just here in section eight for the first time, like what are some of the negative connotations with section 8 that maybe you have? Did you experience some of that yourself before you started?
Speaker 2:Yeah, I mean I think before too, a lot of people, I think I mean I've heard this when I was buying rentals A lot of people think they're going to trash the properties because it is a lower typically a lower, not necessarily lower quality tenant, but lower income type of tenant because the government's helping them out.
Speaker 2:So a lot of people, I think that they're going to trash their properties and yeah, it can happen. It can happen with good tenants or bad tenants. Part of why I was switching over to section eight, I had a lot of one year I kind of had a lady helping out and replaced a lot of tenants and then I had to go through like 80 visions one year. I'm like I'm cleaning house and a little over two years ago or so and I'm like I'm switching over to section eight. I have a team of people that help me with that that are like awesome, they've been doing section eight for 30 plus years. So, okay, um, they're, yeah, they're awesome at it.
Speaker 2:So, yeah, can they trash units? I mean, anybody can, whether it's such a or not. What I found is is like for the most part, they take fairly decent care of it. I mean, the hard thing about it for them is like if they're going to trash a unit and like ruin it and break a lease, it's a couple of year waiting list to get back on the housing program and they lose that voucher that they get. So if they're going to trash it, they don't want to lose it because the waiting list is so long to get that health I mean if they lose the program, they lose that, that money.
Speaker 2:Oh, I didn't know that. Yeah so I feel like for the most part I mean most people are pretty good, but there's bad apples and everything like. I actually just had the two of them because they wouldn't pay their share and it was only like 200 bucks, um, and it was just. Sometimes they slip through the cracks, I mean on paper, they check out and you just, you never know.
Speaker 1:You're right, um, right, oh, but I've got any tenant though right like I had with others, but the rest of mine.
Speaker 2:I mean we have over I don't know probably over 15 people on section 8, and everybody else has been really good. Nice and I've. Yeah, I have an apartment built in Racine so I had a handful of people there that were on the housing program in Racine and like those are always everybody's really good there. I haven't had any issues and yeah.
Speaker 1:Nice, that's awesome. Yeah, there's definitely some interesting programs out there. I would encourage everybody here that has rental properties to look into some of the different programs out there. There was another one. I sold a duplex of mine which I shouldn't have. I should have just refinanced it, but anyway I did. And I was talking to the guy who bought it and I was like, how's the rental, how's the property going? You know, it was my first rental I ever had, so it's always kind of like you're in dear to my heart, right, it's like, oh, it's doing great.
Speaker 1:I got uh Kevin, the guy who he's house hacking it. So he's like I got Kevin uh up to I forgot what it was. It was some really high rent number Like, and I was like how did you do that? And he's like so we got some kind of veteran, some veteran assistant rent or something, and it's kind of the same thing with like Section 8. Like they tell you what their max amount is per bedrooms, and so he was able to juice that thing up by a couple hundred bucks a month. And then Kevin, our tenant, actually lowered how much he had to pay every month from whatever he was on before. So I mean, it was a huge, awesome little niche program he found for this tenant. Then I was like dang, why didn't my property manager know?
Speaker 2:about this. He was there right, like I should have an album. Well, that's the thing too. Like the other benefit is, they typically pay a little bit higher than market rent. Depending on your area, it could be 10 to 20 percent higher, um, so that's another reason why I've been switching a lot over that way too, and I mean you get guaranteed a lot of mine. I'm getting guaranteed rent that like a normal tenant was paying, and then the other share that the tenants paying is kind of like a bonus. Right, I'm a mine.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, that's, that's the thing. Like a lot of people have a stigma too with like upper lower duplexes here in our area I found and I love them because you can put section 8 or you. You know we call it. Ics is integrated community services in green Bay is one of them that basically administers the section eight. Um, but I mean they're paying like for like a three bedroom. I think it's like 1400 bucks or 1500 bucks, that same three bedroom. If you didn't have that as like, maybe you can get 1200 or something. Yeah, you're getting a few hundred extra bucks a month and guaranteed by the government, so it's a nice way to. Yeah, you're getting basically like what you could get in like a nice side-by-side duplex. You're getting like those same rents in an upper lower duplex, which is at a much lower cost typically.
Speaker 2:So it's a very fantastic program.
Speaker 1:Management. Wise Corey, are you guys managing your own here or how are you guys doing the management?
Speaker 2:It sounded a little bit. We self-manage a majority of ours and then I do have a team of guys that are helping me at the Section 8 and they got maybe about a dozen of our properties. So, then we manage the rest of them and like I said I think I said we have 64 units right now, and then they have about a dozen of our properties.
Speaker 1:So is that a management company, then that's doing that, or did they just do like the section eight piece?
Speaker 2:Yeah, they're like management I don't know if they're like official management company, but they, yeah, they do that, okay, yeah, so that's kind of their niche and we've partnered on some deals and I've done some flips with them before, so like we're close that way, so it's cool, cool, yeah, it works well, real well yeah, it works well, real well, so it's awesome.
Speaker 1:Dude, what had you decided?
Speaker 2:to do self-management versus third-party management. So I've tried a lot like other management companies before in the past and it's like I feel like kind of got to babysit them and then, as they grow, it's like I feel like maintenance requests and all that they just hire anybody and like it gets ridiculous. So me, like when I first started, every property property I flipped I would keep, so I'd buy them and I'd fix them up and just keep them. So over the years I built a handful of contractors and handymen, which is still a battle. Today. I'm still trying to find good contractors and people for flips and rentals. But I do have a good, decent network of them that I can just text one of my guys or call them and say, hey, can you check this out? So that's big there. And then we have software and try to get everybody paying online. But we still have a lot of older tenants too and long-term tenants. So I still have people mailing to our PO box and all that.
Speaker 2:Sure, but I mean for the most part PO box and all that. Sure, but I mean for the most part it's pretty hands-off. The hardest part is renting it out. Okay, it's probably the most time-consuming, okay, is that Okay, but I mean it's up and running for the most part. I mean you don't get a ton of calls, okay. It's pretty nothing's 100's 100 passive, but for the most part I mean it's not too bad okay. I mean you might get a call once a week or something with the amount of properties we have and yeah, things like that but do you have any employees working for you on this management side, or is?
Speaker 2:it just you, so just me right now. Um, I'm actually I was just talking with another guy. I'm like I'm gonna probably bring on a va to like do the bookkeeping side of things. Oh sure, I did have somebody helping, like actually one of my wife's friends was helping for a while and they had another baby and then okay. So I'm kind of doing all that now but okay, bring on a va or something to maybe take tenant calls or just help the back end work and you don't get like my quick, what stuff to do? Yeah, nice, I have a.
Speaker 1:I have a third party I can connect you with if you want like a, like a company, to do it. They've been doing an awesome job for us and all of our different entities. I had I had one of our VAs doing some of our rental books, some of our LLCs, for a while, cause it's relatively like almost already done in a sense. But then I went and I had the book company. Bookkeeping company was doing our books for our wholesaling business, because there's a million different transactions so keeping that all straight is a nightmare and I had them go through and look at like a couple of them and like just so much stuff was missed and not classified properly and all this and I was like you know what?
Speaker 1:It's just worth hiring it out for me.
Speaker 2:Are the companies good at that? I feel like a lot of it. I had to switch accountants two years ago and I feel like I don't know finding somebody that can understand all that as far as like, okay, we're buying stuff, we'll use private lenders, and like, okay, well, this isn't income coming in. It's like rehab funds. It's like, are they trying to find somebody that understands that? Or classify and all that? I mean that's yeah, they've been really good.
Speaker 1:They've been really good about it. Yeah, that was part of the issue with working with the VA is, like they knew, bookkeeping with, like you said, real estate, it's like a whole different animal of like. Yeah, hey, this is actually just you know, refi proceeds, this is an income, you know. Yeah, yeah, your balance sheet making sure that's all up to date and accurate, and like, yeah, again, you know how it is. You got to have good books to get lending from some community banks and other places. So, like you don't want that thing to be a mess, I've had it several times where we've switched over the years, tried to save a few bucks on bookkeeping, you know, with, like, outsourcing it to somebody you know or a company that has people overseas that's doing it and doesn't really oversee it too well, and then we end up spending like months trying to just undo all of this. Yeah, for us it hasn't been worth it. So I'll connect you with who we use if you just want to chat with them and get a quote or whatever. Yeah, definitely.
Speaker 1:It's. It's been good for us, though A little bumpy at first, but we worked out a lot of the kinks and then I think they worked out a lot of kinks on their end as far as like staff and things like that, and it's been, it's been really good ever since. So but but for those people out there listening, one of the one of the things that, uh, I was taught right away when I got into this business from a mentor was like make sure you get your books in order right away, like like. I was like, ah, we'll do it at the end of the year, whatever. And then he's like, ah, you want to do it as you go, because you're gonna forget what happened.
Speaker 1:You know, by the end of the year you're trying to reconcile all this stuff, but it's gonna, and and as an entrepreneur it is not my favorite thing in the world to do is to do my least favorite, like my weakness.
Speaker 2:I gotta get better at doing some of that, because I'm like go, go, go and it's like which is good in a way, but then I'm like I gotta do this stuff too, that I kind of put that on the back burner and yeah, you know that's why I outsourced it, because I hate it.
Speaker 1:So I'm like just that's like I'm the same, that's like I don't stress me out I can feel my blood pressure going up as I'm like, if I mess up that, I have to do it. I'm like, oh, I'm getting so overwhelmed and I'm like, why it's just books? But it's just something about my personality.
Speaker 1:I can't, I can't do that I don't know, yeah yeah, well, how are you financing a lot of this stuff, corey? Let's talk about that, because you're getting a lot of your rental properties similar to like our strategy of doing the BRRRR strategy. Talk to me a little bit about some of the BRRRR financing examples that you've had recently.
Speaker 2:Yeah, so pretty much what we do is like a lot of them, like over the years and I feel like it's hard in the beginning if you haven't bought a property, but like now it's a lot of private lenders is how we're using, like our, the funds we're using to acquire the properties. Okay, um, I just it kind of started with a guy from church and he had a few rentals and he's like, hey, if you need help or want to lend, like it kind of snowballed from that. So I, he's like the first guy a couple years ago that like just offered. Um, he saw what I was doing and being on social media helps too. Like I picked up lenders that way.
Speaker 2:People like you want to see you have a track record. So like, if we're just new, start out private lending might not be the best way. If you want to try to bird deal, you're probably better buying. Are you buying a property with a hard money lender? Yeah, but once you build a track record, I mean people will come to you with money. Yeah, and I know for me, like I've always heard in the beginning, like when I started out to find a good deal of money will come. I'm like it didn't make any sense to me. I'm like I have no idea. I'd freak out like how am I going to finance this? And think you have to do traditional financing, which you don't. Um, I mean, that's's one way, it's the easiest way. I mean, and maybe, if you're starting out, I recommend maybe you go that traditional way and just get a track record so people know if that's something you want to do. Get your regular traditional financing or DSCR type of loans to you know, get a couple of properties under your belt and let people know what you're doing, and then they can pick up private lenders.
Speaker 2:But private lenders is a big thing. And then, second, there would be like a hard money lender. Okay, I mean, we had like six slips gone and I think I had like three or four refinances at once. So like, obviously it's for you to use your own money doing all that. It's like you're tying up a lot of funds and rehab funds.
Speaker 2:So like, like we have private lenders and hard money lenders that were funding all that and we have five of them right now Flip's going where a couple of them are under contract Three of them. Two of them are set to close soon and then we have three that are in progress and then I have two more refinances. So it's buying with the private lender or hard money lender as far as rental goes, and then either a commercial dscr lender is what I'm doing to refinance. Okay, um, a little bit on that. Like, a lot of the dscr lenders don't like to finance under 75 000, so I can't like commercial type of loans. Okay on that. So the commercial lenders, I mean they typically don't have a minimum balance, but they're typically three five-year arms amortized over 20 or 25 years For me at those purchase prices I don't really mind it.
Speaker 1:If you're on 20, 25-year arms, you're paying a ton of principal off, comparatively speaking. A lot of mine are on 30 years now because I just haven't been able to get stuff kept to cash flow. On 20, 25 year arms too, you're paying a ton of principal off, comparatively speaking, like a lot of mine are in 30 years now cause I just haven't been able to get stuff kept to cashflow on 20 or 25. So I found a lender, a community bank locally that'll do 30 year and so a lot of those, to make the cashflow numbers work. But the downside is, like five years you haven't really made a huge dent in the principal.
Speaker 2:So you're not building as much wealth necessarily as, yeah, it could be. But I mean what we do too. So, like, I guess the other thing I look at is we're buying at a significant discount, you know. So, like that's kind of where some of that is and I need to chip in a way at the principal a little bit. But right, right, you know. So if you buy right, I mean that helps too well if you're burning them.
Speaker 1:you know, like I just did a, a podcast where I think it's going to come out before the one before, so the audience would have just listened to this episode prior to ours. I just did a deal breakdown on one where I'm cash flowing probably $23 a door, if I'm lucky, per month, two doors, so upper, lower duplex. But I burned it, so I have no money into this deal and that's got. I think I have 48 grand of equity from you know, right after I've refinanced it.
Speaker 1:So it's like to me that's still a smoking deal for me If, even if I'm making 23 bucks, if I let's say you haven't have two grand in this thing, you know I'm still. That's pretty, still pretty good. Return on Still pretty good return on it.
Speaker 2:Well, the other thing too, like people don't get is you get the tax benefits and depreciation. So if you have a higher income, whether you're flipping or wholesaling or doing any of that, you buy a property there and you get the regular depreciation. But you can cost, segregate it too and accelerate it. So that's the other benefit plus the equity. So it's more on technically it's more than 23 bucks a door if you factor in all those things, but a lot of people don't see that either.
Speaker 1:So, right, well, and the way I look at it is like you know, we have the, the wholesaling business flipping. That's all kind of cash to live off of, business, right. And then these rentals I don't need need the cash flow necessarily from them to live off of sure. So for me it's really just about starting the clock of getting that tenant to be paying that debt down and get the property to start appreciating. And the sooner I can start that clock five, 10 years from now, my future self is going to be very grateful that I started that clock. They're not going to be like dude, I can't believe you bought this thing and only cashflow 23 bucks a door, but now we've got, you know, 150 grand of equity here.
Speaker 2:You shouldn't have made that purchase, you know it's like we have probably 50% equity in most of our portfolio, so it's really high equity, I mean, which helps too. So if I need to offload something like I'm going to have funds there, I can 1031 into something else where I can always sell one off a year and be fine. You know, yeah, so I mean part of it's coming to buy and write and, um, like I said, I started buying almost 20 a little over 20 years ago. It has. So I mean, some of those are that's paid down a lot in that time. So that's amazing, dude I love that.
Speaker 1:That's so great. Yeah, that's the other thing too. Like I look at cash flow differently now. I've talked about this on a few of the episodes. Like I refinanced an apartment back when rates were like 3% or whatever stupid rates during COVID and I didn't cashflow anything on it for like two years, cause every time like a tenant would move out, I'd have to put all that money back in. And then after two years I refinanced and I pulled out like 240 grand on a refi and I was like, oh, there's my cash flow.
Speaker 1:Right, I just had to wait like two years to get it. Yep, and it was tax-free, which is my favorite kind of money. Yeah, getting that tax-free money is my favorite kind of money. So, yeah, that's what I love about the BRRRR. I think that's probably what you and I probably have in common there, and you, like you said, you can do a lot with these things. So if you start acquiring them, corey, now you've acquired over 20 years. Now you've got these little chess pieces. You can do all kinds of different things with refinance. You can sell it, you can. You could trade it up, you could do 10, 31 into a bigger property, like. You can do all kinds of stuff with it. So I'm I'm probably similar to you in that I don't really care when I'm buying it, what it is, as long as the numbers make sense for me. I know that I don't have to be married to that property. I can use that as a chess piece, later sell it, do something different with it whatever the case is, it's kind of hard right now.
Speaker 2:I'm like, hey, what's my next move? People always ask. I'm like I'm not sure. Yet I'm at a good spot where I'm like I'm looking for these things, I can do this, I could do that. I could do nothing. I mean I don't buy another one, but if I can get it free or practically free, I'll do that. So we're in a good spot doing that.
Speaker 1:Yeah, you just keep taking base hits and pretty soon you look back and they add up over time and 64 units at 50% equity. Nothing to sneeze at there, dude. That's pretty incredible Cool.
Speaker 2:I appreciate that.
Speaker 1:What you've been able to build man over time and you're doing it the right way, which is great too I mean, that's another huge piece of things here is making sure we're doing things the right way, we're treating people the right way, Having that high integrity and giving investors a good reputation is super important out there for all of us.
Speaker 1:So, yeah, I love it, man. Well, dude court has been awesome, man. I think there's tons of nuggets in here. I always end with a little fun question, and where I came up with this is because we have people out of state that don't really know about Wisconsin, right, and so we want to tell them a little bit about it. So for you, do you have a favorite Wisconsin tradition or place that you like to visit here in this great state, in?
Speaker 2:here. Oh man, I don't know. I mean I I grew up going like Wisconsin Dells. That was kind of like my, our little thing, like, like I said, I grew up like our parents didn't have a ton of money but we'd go spend a weekend up there and um, have the water parks and do all the shopping and things there. Um, that's probably the biggest thing we would do growing up at that I remember. Um, yeah, otherwise, there's so much outdoor stuff and parts and recreation. I mean it's, it's awesome here it is. Sometimes they're fun.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I just was. Uh, I was just telling a guy we had a wedding yesterday and uh, I was just telling one of the guys there he, he does a lot of road trip and stuff like that and I said, you know, it's crazy, we just got back from a two week road trip out West and pulling back into like Wisconsin, it's amazing how green everything is here compared to like a lot of the States out West. It's very brown and like dry out there and you get into Wisconsin you're like holy cow, there's into wisconsin.
Speaker 2:You're like holy cow. There's like if your favorite color is green, you should be in wisconsin. It's pretty like really good scenery. I mean even like you drive out toward lacrosse and like up north, I mean just the scenery and like green and the I don't know. It's amazing.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it is we have a great state here for sure. Well, cory, this is awesome. Man. If anybody wants to connect up with you, whether they have a deal they want to, uh, possibly get over to you or maybe just talk to you about you know their own journey is there a good way for them to reach out to you that you'd prefer?
Speaker 2:yeah, I mean they could either on on facebook or instagram um, probably the two biggest ones. I'm, I'm there and basically my my first and last name, so cory and you, you can start P-A-S-Z. It should pop up or Instagram I'm Corey and I'm P-A-S. Okay, corey Pez on Instagram and I'm pretty active on all those and try to respond as quick as I can. Cool, awesome man.
Speaker 1:Well, very good, and, as we said earlier, corey gets a lot of his deals from social media, and I Very good, and, as we said earlier, corey gets a lot of his deals from social media, and I say this on every episode if you got some value out of this thing or you just want to help your own brand, share this episode on your page, or we have different shorts and stuff like that that we'll chop up and throw on YouTube. You can share those as well. And if you, if you could do us a huge favor, if you did get some value out of this, going and commenting on these videos is a a big help for us on YouTube, and rating and reviewing us on Spotify and Apple, I think, are the two spots that most people will find us for audio versions of this. If you can do that for us, that helps us a ton and we really appreciate that. Lastly, you guys, if you want to get our Burr for Beginners course Corey and I talked a lot about the Burr process today If you want to get that course, we are giving it away for free Now.
Speaker 1:We used to sell for 1900 bucks. You can now get it for free. You just got to go to the website, get on the buyer's list and then reach out to Connor. He's got the code. You got to talk to him. We make you talk to him, but he'll give you the code for free to get that birth for beginners course. So with that, corey, we will wrap here. My friend, I appreciate your time and for all of you guys, we will see you on.
