The Wisconsin Investor
Each week, we bring you interviews with some of Wisconsin's top real estate investors who share their tips, tricks, and strategies that you can implement right away. This show is dedicated to helping Wisconsin real estate investors elevate their game. Along with interviews, I'll also dive into hot topics in solo episodes and feature experts from various real estate sectors across Wisconsin.
The Wisconsin Investor
How to Build Tax-Free Wealth with BRRRR: The Strategy Most Investors Are Sleeping On
What if you could buy real estate, pull all your money back out, and still build long-term wealth? That’s the power of the BRRRR method — and in this episode, Corey breaks it all down.
From one college rental to 700+ units, Corey shows how Buy, Rehab, Rent, Refinance, Repeat can be your path to financial freedom, even with today’s interest rates.
Inside this solo episode:
- How a $300K property can build $200K–$450K in wealth over 15 years
- Why cash flow is nice, but equity and refinancing are the real wealth builders
- The shocking truth: 7% vs. 5.5% interest? Just a $5K difference in equity after 5 years
- How Corey pulled out $240K tax-free from one BRRRR deal — with no cash flow for two years
- Why just 2 BRRRRs a year for 5 years could get you $170K+ tax-free… every year
- How Wisconsin cities like Green Bay, Oshkosh, and Manitowoc are quietly booming
If you’re tired of waiting on the sidelines, this episode proves that you don’t need perfect market timing — just a smart strategy, systems, and action.
💸 Want BRRRR-ready off-market deals? Join the buyers list at WisconsinDiscountProperties.com — new deals hit your inbox every Monday at 6AM.
🎙️ Subscribe to The Wisconsin Investor for more tactical real estate strategies, mindset shifts, and real-world investing wins.
What's up everybody? You are listening to the Wisconsin Investor Podcast. I'm your host, corey Raymond, and today you guys are stuck with me on a solo episode. So, before you turn it off and go somewhere else, hang in there, because what if I told you that you could buy a property, pull your money back out and keep building wealth over and over again? That's what we're gonna get into today, guys how to build some massive, massive wealth. Before I do that, though, if you're brand new to the Wisconsin Investor Podcast, I want to just give you a little bit of insight. We've been now recording since October. I think we're probably coming up on 40, 50 episodes. You can probably tell, wherever you're watching this, where we're at on this thing. If we you know.
Speaker 1:If you're not from Wisconsin, you have no interest in Wisconsin. That's totally okay. Most of what we discuss on this show are either success, successes and failures of investors here in Wisconsin locally, but we always bring on other experts as well, so we'll have somebody. We just had somebody about note investing. We have accountants on here. Recently, a few times we've had accountants on here. We have some attorneys that pop on, other industry experts, some mindset and personal development type people, so we have a wide range of different people we try to bring on. So if you're not looking at investing in Wisconsin, but you are a real estate investor, you want to be a real estate investor, you're in the right spot. We just happen to focus here. Investor, you want to be a real estate investor? You're in the right spot. We just happen to focus here on Wisconsin because we think it is the best market to be investing in. So with that, one of the things I always like to plug is Wisconsin Discount Properties. Who sponsors this show? At Wisconsin Discount Properties, we put off-market deals in your inbox every single Monday morning at 6 am, and a lot of those deals that we put in there are deals that you can utilize. This strategy we're going to discuss today on the episode. So, for those of you guys listening, I'm going to do my best to describe some things. Those of you guys watching on YouTube, I'm going to have some different screen sharing. I'm going to do here in a little bit and walk through some different things to illustrate some of the points that I wanted to make today on the episode, and we're going to also deep dive this topic in more detail.
Speaker 1:Coming up the fourth Tuesday of August we meet at the Woods Golf Course in Green Bay. So if you're wanting to make a drive, if you're not around Green Bay or you're in the area, come on up to that. We open the doors at six o'clock for some networking. We start at 6.30. It's called the REI Success Club. You can find the REI Success Group on Facebook and join that group. I think we're over 1,000 strong now in there, so join the group.
Speaker 1:But this is the topic we're going to be discussing in more details this upcoming month. So when you come there to these events, it's really more of an open format. We have some panelists, so myself and Zach Morgan, who's been on the show before, will be on the panel and basically we'll give you a little background on ourselves and then we open it up for questions for you, the audience, to fire away at us, and the topic will be what we're going to discuss today. But really you could ask us anything at that point. So without further ado, let's get into it and if you've been in this game for a while, you can probably guess where I'm going with this episode.
Speaker 1:It is my favorite strategy in real estate investing and it is called the BRRRR method. We've been talking in the last few episodes about a BRRRR course that I have. We're now giving it away for free. So if you join our buyers list at wisconsindiscountpropertiescom, you can talk to Connor or Reese on our team and they'll get you set up with the course for free. So check that out.
Speaker 1:But this is one of the most powerful strategies in real estate investing and here's why it's powerful. A couple of things you can force appreciation through rehabbing these properties. So what we're talking about here is the BRRRR and it's an acronym. And so, again, for those of you that are experienced, you're like oh, I know the BRRRR, this is going to be elementary, I already know all about this stuff. Hang on, tune in. We're going to get into some examples. We're going to hopefully light a fire under your butt today If you're not utilizing this strategy or you've slowed down on it a little bit like myself.
Speaker 1:Actually, when I do this episode, I'm like gosh, I got to get more, doing more of these things. Right, as I look at the numbers in particular, which we're going to get into today, I've got some examples to show you, guys that are pretty powerful. But it stands for buy, rehab, rent, refinance, repeat Okay, and I could get into all the semantics of how we're going to do that. We'll see how long this episode goes and if I get into some of those details, but essentially why that's powerful. If you were to go and buy something on the MLS today, right, and it's turnkey, there's no rehab needed, the rents are at market rent.
Speaker 1:You're going to put 20 to 25% down on that property, okay, so if you've got a limited amount of cash available, you are putting the money down on that property. Okay, so if you've got a limited amount of cash available, you are putting the money down on that property and then that money's going to sit there for a while. Right, that property now has to appreciate. Your tenants got to pay that debt down far enough that you could refinance that property at some point and pull your capital back out if you wanted to recycle that money. So for most people they don't have briefcases full of cash just sitting around to go invest, and so when they start plotting out their real estate journey, they look at things and they say, man, I would love to get to say a hundred units, right, but I don't have that kind of cash sitting around, you know, to get to that number. That's a lot of down payment money to put in, okay, and again, that doesn't count any kind of CapEx that would come up and other things like that.
Speaker 1:And so what this strategy allows you to do is utilize a smaller amount of cash. It doesn't have to be your cash. You can borrow that money from a friend, family member, somebody in your network that's willing to give it to you. Helocs are a great option to use for this money. You use that for a short period of time. You rehab the property, you get the rents up to where the market rent is. Then you refinance that property. And why that's important?
Speaker 1:When you go to purchase a property, banks are going to look at it typically. Now there's commercial lenders in Wisconsin, thankfully, that are pretty creative, and so if you have the right connections at some of these banks, you can avoid some of the steps in this process. But traditionally how it works is they are going to require 20 or 25% down off of the purchase price or the appraised value, whichever is lower. Okay, so what they're saying is let's say, you bought, you got a great deal on a property. You bought it for 50,000, right, you know, right now it's worth a hundred thousand dollars.
Speaker 1:Traditionally, banks are going to make you, they're going to lend off of the $50,000 mark. They don't care that you have all this equity in the property at purchase, so you have to buy it. Then you would have to refinance it anyway If you wanted to pull that money out. Most people just leave it sit, okay, so what this allows you to do is you're recycling capital. So you buy it, you increase the value and, as quickly as you can do that, you refinance the property. And now, now, let's say, it appraises at a hundred thousand. Well, now most banks will lend 80% of that number. You now can get $80,000 back, right? So now you can go do another deal and do another deal and do another deal. So it's a very, very powerful, very, very powerful strategy.
Speaker 1:Okay, it also allows you to build a lot of equity over time, right? So it's not a huge cashflow deal, right? You're not typically going to do this for cash flow. You're going to do this to build equity. There's some tax strategies involved. We did a couple episodes on that, so I'm not going to get too much into the tax strategy piece of this, but just know that that is another huge benefit to doing this strategy is some of the tax benefits, especially if you can consider yourself a real estate professional. And so, overall, to build wealth again, not cash flow to build wealth this strategy is tough to beat.
Speaker 1:All right, now a lot of people out there, especially outside of Wisconsin, are going to turn and they're going to say they're going to say you can't do this strategy anymore. It doesn't work, right. And what are they saying? They're saying you can't find deals that make sense anymore to do this on. They're going to say that you know you're going to have to have money stuck in the deals. There's no way you can get all of your money back out of them. And that's not true. We have case study after case study that we've done on deals that we've sold through Wisconsin Discount Properties where people are pulling all, or at least the majority, out. They might have 5% stuck in the deal versus 25% plus all of their rehab money. So there's still a lot of opportunities here, okay.
Speaker 1:So what I want to do, guys, I want to go through some examples of this and again, if you have more questions like how to finance these deals, all that kind of stuff there's, there's the Berg course. You can get that for free now, or you can come out to our discussion that we're going to be having coming up here at the end of August, all right? So what I'm going to do, guys, I'm going to share my screen if I can find it. So, for those of you guys listening for the podcast, I'm going to do my best, okay. So we're going to do an example deal, all right, and here's some examples and what I did, guys. I use chat GPT. If you've been listening to this show, you know that I'm a huge chat GPT fan. Okay, but what I'm going to do is I'm going to use an example. So what I said is I have a deal that's $300,000 ARV. Now I actually have a deal that's pretty close to this and I'm going to talk a little bit about that deal and we're going to get into a little bit of what, some potential things that can go wrong with these deals too. So that is a real possibility here, and I'm trying to get my screen to work so that I can read it and make sure I'm doing this appropriately. Here we go, all right. So I said, yeah, I want a deal. It's $300,000 ARVs.
Speaker 1:Our lenders will refinance 80% of the LTV, which means loan to value, and I want to show somewhere we break even every year in cash flow and we're focused on debt pay down. Show an example with a 20-year amortization schedule break even cash flow with a 7% interest rate. 7% is about what I'm getting quoted right now. It depends on the lender. Some are 7.5%, some are 8% at the time we're recording this, but 7% if you're shopping it around. Typically you can land somewhere around there and I use a lot of community banks, commercial financing, to do these. A lot of those guys are relationship based, so you might get quoted a little bit higher rate right now if you're new to the game or you don't have an established relationship with some lenders, but that's okay, all right.
Speaker 1:So what we're going to do here and I wanted to show 0% equity or 0% appreciation, because you'll hear people say, oh, you can't bank on appreciation. Right, and that's very true. You don't want to bank on appreciation. However, I did an episode, a solo episode. The last one I actually did was talking about like basically, why real estate investing? And what it basically said was you know, you gotta have, you gotta have some some confidence in real estate. Over the last, I want to say 76 years of this chart. Real estate's only lost value, and this is across the country, so real estate is very regional, but it's only lost value. Maybe I think it was six years out of 76. So we're saying, like worst case scenario, 0% appreciation for five years in a row, 10 years in a row, 15 years in a row, and the reason I want to do this was just to show the power of the wealth building part of the debt pay down piece of this. Okay.
Speaker 1:The other important factor to look at here is we're using 20 year amortization schedules and these examples Okay. Now what does that mean? If you're new to the game, that means that you're going to be paying more monthly, so you're paying that loan off in 20 years versus, like, a 30 year loan. A 30 year loan is going to spread that out further, so your cash flow should be higher, but you're going to pay less in principle. So the wealth building component of that property is not as strong. So you can play with that a little bit.
Speaker 1:Some lenders it's hard to find in the commercial space where they'll lend 30-year amortizations on value-add properties, but they are out there A lot of them, especially when you go to credit unions they'll go up to 25 years. Common, very common, is a 20-year amortization schedule. So break-even cash flow very common in this space. You might even be a little bit negative every year, but let me just show you the numbers of why that still might make sense.
Speaker 1:So what we're looking at here we have a $300,000 after repair value, arv, brrrr deal. We're going to do 80% loan to value, 7% interest, 20 year amortization and a break-even cashflow. So on a 30 year, if you're getting this property, you're all into it for $240,000. That's the goal. Okay Again, maybe you're at 250. So you get 10,000 stuck into it. Maybe you're a little bit less. We're just going to run it as if we get in a great perfect bird here. We got all of our money back. We got our $240,000. We stuck into the initial purchase back plus all the rehab and everything else. We were all into it for $240,000. Our initial equity. When we refinance that property we get our $300,000 appraisal. We have created $60,000 of equity Day one of that refinance. That's pretty cool.
Speaker 1:Now what we look at with a 7% interest, 20-year amortization equity. After five years we're now up to $92,000. And this is with 0% appreciation. So I didn't include any appreciation of these situations here. Equity after 10 years we are now $139,000. So a deal that you broke even on. You're not making any money every month on cash flow. You now have $139,000 of equity after 10 years. Equity after 15 years Now we're getting real close to paying this thing off. We only got five years left on the loan. We're at $206,000.
Speaker 1:Now chat wanted to give me a full amortization schedule and some charts which I'll show you guys here that are watching on YouTube. It's just a cool little chart. It just shows you your equity, everything I just described to you. Thank you, chat, for doing that. All right, very nice. Okay, give me a little PDF. Very, very nice of chat to do that for me, chat to do that for me. Now I said show me that same example but let's add in 4% annual appreciation with the same parameters as the above example. Now and I did not check chat's math, sometimes you have to check chat's math, but it seemed like it lined up pretty good here.
Speaker 1:So our equity after five years, now that we added 4% annual appreciation and so the loan is still the same, we're at a $240,000 loan. We have 60,000 of equity day one. We're at a 7% interest rate, 20-year amortization schedule on our loan. Our equity is now $157,000 after five years. That's just adding 4% appreciation to the formula. Equity After 10 years. We're now at 283,000 and our equity after 15 years remember we we had an ARV on this originally at 300,000, right, our equity now is $446,000 after 15 years. All right.
Speaker 1:So now we're going to see a little chart here for those of you guys looking here, what that appreciation really does. And what you can see is by year 20, when that loan is paid off, that property is now doubled in value. It's over $600,000 in value, which is 4% annual appreciation. Nothing crazy here. We're not talking about slow and steady now. Some years it may go down, some years it may be more than four, but we're going to say average 4% and we're going to get into some numbers.
Speaker 1:I had deep research, do some numbers of Northeast Wisconsin and what is the average annual appreciation over the last couple of years, and so we'll get into some of those numbers here as well. All right, let's go down. I said add in the numbers. Okay, so it did. It showed us the spread here, so you can see now, for those of you guys watching on YouTube. What was the difference in five years? So 92,000 was our equity after five years, with 0% appreciation. We add in just a small amount of appreciation, it's 157,000, so a pretty big spread there. You look at the 15-year, you're at 450,000 of equity compared to 200,000. That 4% annual appreciation makes a big difference. But regardless, even if you have 0% appreciation 15 years, a deal that you have no money into is now worth $206,000 to you. Well, it's worth more than that, but the equity is $206,000. Pretty, pretty powerful, okay.
Speaker 1:Now another thing I always thought, and until I started messing around with these numbers I thought man, that 7% interest rate, if it was like five and a half percent, I wonder what that would do to my equity. It would probably be crazy, right? My thought is like I'm paying more principal every month, less in interest. Now, while that affects my cashflow and I could have done some cashflow scenarios, but for today's purposes I didn't really want to get into the cashflow component of it and play around with this whole lot you guys can do these same things if you have chat by now. If you don't have chat, you should. You want to get the plus, at least membership for it.
Speaker 1:Anyway, as far as it equates to wealth building, the interest rate is very nominal in the figures. So I've heard now, since interest rates have been higher the last couple of years, a lot of people are hanging out on the sidelines Burr investors people who claim to be burr investors sitting on the sidelines waiting for rates to go down. What's going to happen when rates go down? Guys? Rates go down. Demand is most likely going to go up, okay, and that means you're going to have more competition for the same properties. If you guys remember in 2020 and 2021, what happened? We were getting multiple offers way over asking everything else, so appreciation is going to go up even higher, in my opinion. I'm not an expert, so I could be wrong Okay, but what you're going to see is, if you buy today at a seven or an 8% interest rate and you can get that thing to break even with the improved rents, now, when rates go down, your wealth just went up, if my hypothesis is correct. So let's take a peek at this.
Speaker 1:We're going to look at this chart here. If you guys remember the chart from above, this is equity growth with a 5.5% interest rate Pretty conservative number. We think we can, probably based on everything I read, next couple of years we'll be back to five and a half percent-ish numbers. After five years, with 0% appreciation growth, you're only at $97,000 of equity and I'm going to show you guys a little side-by-side chart here so you can see the difference between the five and a half percent interest rate and the 7% interest rate as it relates to how much equity you've built, how much wealth you've created. Okay, so here's a little breakdown. It's going to give me some numbers on the screen. We're going to go down to the side-by-side chart here. All right. So what? We're looking at equity, 4% appreciation and 0% appreciation.
Speaker 1:If you guys see the numbers here, I think I actually had it put the numbers in here for us. Yes, here we go. So when we looked at the chart before, with 7% interest, after five years you have almost $93,000 of equity. After five years, at 5.5%, you've got almost $98,000. So only a $5,000 difference in your equity. Scoot way up over here to the 15-year. It really drops off. There's really not a big difference here. You're at 206,000 with the 7% interest rate and 213,000 with the 5.5% rate. So does the interest rate really affect your wealth, ability to create wealth? Not, in my opinion, that is so nominal, in the grand scheme of things, that if you're sitting on the sidelines waiting for interest rates to go down because you're going to build more equity, these numbers would probably dispute that. Okay. When we look at the 4% interest rate thing same thing it doesn't really change a whole lot. The numbers are just bigger. At the 15year mark. The difference is the same. You've got about an $8,000 difference there in equity after 15 years, so not really really a big difference at all.
Speaker 1:Now I said, hey, I've talked to some of you guys out there and I like to talk about your goals. So if you and I have a call and you're looking to either get started in real estate or you're stuck or something like that, typically I'm going to want to find out what is your goal. Why are you even doing real estate? Because the why, as we all know, it's the thing that's going to push you when times are tough. Right, and sometimes I talk to you guys and there's been some goals. This has been a common theme. Man, I want to make 100 G's a year. I just want to make 100 G's a year, then I can quit my job. Sweet, very doable, okay. But if you're not making anything from real estate right now, it can be a challenge, right, and I'll share an experience with you.
Speaker 1:I bought my first commercial building or apartment in 2019, I believe I closed on a 16 unit. I was going from duplexes up to a 16 unit, so it was a pretty big jump. And when I ran my numbers my bird calculator I was $300,000 higher than another guy who'd been in the game for a long time right, and I was. I actually reached out to him about maybe partnering with me on it, because I just didn't have the confidence to own, operate and run a 16 unit apartment building and his number was for the 15 at the time. He was in the $300,000 range. With how he ran his number and I'm like man, this guy is so smart, he knows way more than I do, and that is still true to this day. Very successful real estate investor. He just happened to run his numbers differently than I did, so I had my little bird calculator and I put it in my bird calculator and it came out that I could pay I think it was around 600,000 for this thing and still build some equity with raising rents.
Speaker 1:I had to raise all the rents. I was going to have to redo all the units because well, not all of them. There was one building that was pretty new. It was four, four units on the property but I was going to have to raise all the rents and do a lot of the heavy lifting. It was probably going to be, I figured, about a 12-month kind of intense with my property manager turnaround. It turns out I really underestimated the cost of rehabbing 16 or 12 units. Still got a few legacy people there that we've raised rents on and have not had to spend the money on doing it, but it was pretty capital intensive. So that is one thing I've learned over time is that you know you may end up being capital intensive on some of these things and you might. We might just want to plan for that, to have some extra laying around on these.
Speaker 1:Burrs Point is I didn't cash flow anything Every month for two years. Took anything I made ended up the next month. I'd be like, oh, we raised rents on this guy Doesn't want to pay it, he's moving out, we're going to have to do a full turn on it Like, shoot, well, there goes all my quote unquote cashflow from this month. Right, same thing It'd be. You know, maybe I'd get a month off, save up a little cash, build up a little money with the property management company, but the next month same thing guys moving out 10 grand, okay, Shoot, keep returning them, right. What ended up happening, though, is I didn't really like I don't think I really ever had to come out of pocket for anything. I don't think I ever had to fund anything as far as like out of pocket for this property, but what happened was, two years later, interest rates were at all time lower in like 2021, right, interest rates are down and I ended up refinancing that property with a better rate.
Speaker 1:My value came in. I don't remember exactly where it was, but I do remember I pulled out about $230,000 to $240,000 tax-free from that property. Now, if I sell it, of course I'll have to pay tax and blah, blah, blah, but it was loan proceeds, so it's considered, at that time, not a taxable event, so in that moment, it's tax-free. So I have $240,000, and I did the math and I'm like man. I had this thing about two years I didn't quote unquote cashflow anything but two years later, I pulled $240,000 out of this thing tax-free. That's like 10 grand a month tax-free, that of cashflow. I just had to wait two years to collect my check, but doing the math on that, that's basically what it equated to, and so I think about cash flow differently.
Speaker 1:Now a little bit right. If you don't need, if you have a W-2, you're getting paid a good amount of money and you don't need the cash flow today to live off of. This is, hands down, an amazing strategy. You should be doing everything in your power, in my opinion, to get as many of these BRRRR deals as possible, because watch what happens If you wanted to just make $100,000 a year.
Speaker 1:I asked Chad show some examples of how someone could be able to buy properties using the BRRRR and those examples we used above to refinance in five years and be living this lifestyle that they wanted, right? So give yourself five-year runway. Say, hey, man, I'm going to stick this W-2 out five years. How many deals would you then need to buy to pull out $100,000 per year and refinance loan proceeds? All right, so we ran the same example $300,000 ARV BRRR. Okay, we're going to buy the same type of deal every year for five years. We're going to hold for the full five years. Then do a cash out on each property after it hits the five-year mark and we're going to treat the net cash out proceeds, tax-free loan dollars as quote unquote income. So this is going to replace us.
Speaker 1:Now chat gave us five-year equity and cash out per property scenarios Okay. So they have a conservative scenario. This is very, very conservative. 7% interest rate, 0% appreciation Okay. Then they gave us moderate. They're going to say, okay, if that interest rate comes down to five and a half percent, 0% interest rate or 0% appreciation, we're going to call that moderate Growth, which is where I would anticipate the realistic outcome of this to be. I'm not going to bank on the interest rate going down or anything like that. Even if it does, we saw it doesn't make that big of a difference. Okay, but your growth? This is where I would probably say we're going to look at some of these scenarios as we dive into this a little bit 7% interest rate, annual appreciation, average of 4%, and then optimistic, the only difference there is a 5.5% interest rate, same appreciation.
Speaker 1:So how many properties would you need to buy each year to start collecting at least 100K a year in cash out refis once the first batch reaches five years? So I'm looking again. I'm going to go down to the growth model here the growth model. If you did this, you would only need to buy two deals a year to be able to refinance every five or in five years and have over a hundred K. You're going to actually be able to pull out $85,000 of cash from each of those $300,000 properties that you bought today. Okay, and you can start this process now, which is insane. So that's $170,000 a year of tax-free income from buying two of these types of deals every single year. Isn't that crazy? I ran this. I'm like come on right, it can't be it and it's true.
Speaker 1:So in year six this is what they're saying Property batch one hit that five-year mark, so you cash out refi. Year seven again, you're going to buy two a year, two a year, two a year, okay. So if appreciation goes up higher, you need even less doors or less deals to do. Again, some factors here, though longer amortization. So if you do the 25-year loan or the 30-year loan, you're going to have to have higher appreciation to hit the same number, or you're just going to have to delay a little bit, or again, we're at $170,000 on these two. So even if you had 25 years, you'd probably still have enough equity there to be able to do the same scenario with just those two properties.
Speaker 1:Could run that again here in chat, but for today's purposes we're just going to assume that, all right. So this is a very, very powerful thing and you can get really set on this. Then, too right, if you just said, hey, I need two deals a year, I need two deals that I can burr, that are going to give me 60 grand of equity up front, right, or however you want it to do, that you can get very, very clear on your buy box with this, all right. And then I said, okay, hey, appreciation is kind of like I'm just throwing out 4%. I think that's been historically pretty accurate in Northeast Wisconsin at least. I can't speak for the other parts of Wisconsin. It varies all over the place, but I would say, generally speaking, we could assume 4% is probably pretty good 2020 to 2022, probably way higher.
Speaker 1:We had some massive growth in prices in those couple of years when rates were really far down. So I said just give me two years, go back two years. This seems to be from all the agents I talked to. From everybody else, this seems to be a more quote, unquote normalized market Okay, and so I wanted to look. I said, just give me Green Bay, appleton, oshkosh and Manitowoc areas for what has been the actual average of appreciation and just focus on one to four unit rental properties. I don't want to focus, I don't want to get into like commercial stuff or anything else, just one to four units. And I had it do it. It took 29 minutes for chat to do its deep research and what we came up with was over the last two years Green Bay has averaged 5% a year on these rental properties, so it's over 10%. Over the last two years. Appleton was about 3% a year on average, so one year it was 7% and then the market leveled off and was actually down just a hair year over year. So it averaged out to 6% in those two years. So 3% annually, all right. Oshkosh mid to high single digit rates each year. So median sale price was 7.5% higher in June of 2025 than the year prior and they're saying an estimate of 6% annual appreciation over the last two years is pretty reasonable.
Speaker 1:Manitowoc area I did not realize this. Manitowoc has been blowing up. So about 13 to 14% per year average over the last two years. It was just insane. All right, I don't know. I didn't dive into why that is. I didn't get into some of the numbers in here exactly to figure out if there was some other factor that we didn't consider. But I would not bank on 13 to 14% per year on average. But that just goes to show that does happen here in Wisconsin. So that gave us some scenarios right Now. I ran through back down here to see some of the charts. Now, if we applied those updated figures to each of the marks, now Manitowoc, they just ran this scenario pretty, pretty crazy here and I don't even think it gave me some numbers. But if you look at the chart you'll see Manitowoc just blows up. But all of them either way, you're doing a pretty nice. You got a pretty nice updated graph here. The only one was Appleton, which was surprising because I always thought of Appleton as being probably a little bit higher appreciation than Oshkosh or Green Bay. But just goes to show. You know, we're probably pretty safe with our 4% assumption in some of these things. So that was my chat GPT experience.
Speaker 1:The other thing I wanted to show you guys was over here on offers due. This is the emails that we send out. So this is let me look at this. I actually ended up buying this property as well and bird this thing. I didn't actually get an appraisal done, they just went off of my cost and assumed it was going to be higher. So I do have about 10 grand stuck into this deal just because I just I went with a credit union. They had much better rates than the community banks and they typically like more stabilized stuff. So I paid cash and then I just refinanced with a credit union. But because it was within their six month seasoning period or 12 month seasoning period, wherever they had to go off of my cost, they couldn't go off of the ARV. So, and I was fine with it, it's a lower dollar figure, not a big deal. My payment on this thing those only like 320 bucks a month and I get 13,. I think I get $1,300 a month for this thing. So that that was a nice pickup there.
Speaker 1:But nobody else wanted this one. This one was out to the list for 64, nine. Nobody bid on this property and so those of you guys listening, what I'm describing is there was a mobile home, 1189 Clairville Road in Oshkosh, on about a 0.41 acre lot, kind of out in the country a little bit and nobody bid on it, so I just bought it and now it's a killer property for me Down. The same time I must have been really hungry for some deals. Here was another one. We reduced the price on this one, so the week prior we must have had it out for a higher number and nobody wanted this one either. So I picked this bad boy up and now I'm going to tell you guys here's some of the things to be careful of and considerations with doing burs.
Speaker 1:All right, so what we're looking at is 823 Bond Street, upper, lower duplex, two bed, one bath per unit and the bottom there's actually kind of a third bedroom. The appraiser actually gave me I just got the appraisal back yesterday he gave me a third bedroom down there, so it's really three bedroom lower, two bedroom upper. Property management's only renting it out as a two bedroom on each and it is what it is. But we're now getting almost 1100 a month in rent and I believe the utility oh yeah, all utilities are split, so I don't pay any utilities here Now, so he doesn't pay the water. I'm still stuck with it, right, but let me talk about this deal. So I am all into this thing.
Speaker 1:Probably we had to rehab. We rehabbed both units, did a lot of work here. I'm probably into it for $190. Right now maybe 180 on it. I got the appraisal back yesterday. Guys. This should have been at least a 240 ARV. They gave me 210.
Speaker 1:So this is the risk with doing BRRRR If you don't have a cash backup, if you don't have private money, that could stay in the deal with you. If you're doing short-term bridge loans or anything like that and that appraisal comes in low, you might be stuck right. You might be in a bit of a pickle there and you might have to scramble to get somebody to come help get you some money back right To pay off your private lender. So luckily for me, I just did cash on this one. I actually use cash value life insurance policy, which is a whole other episode we could get into and use that. But now I'm fighting the appraisal right and there's a way to do it. I actually use chat again for this surprise, surprise to fight the appraisal.
Speaker 1:But that is a big risk with this. This thing should have been a 240 ARV. I wonder if I actually have my rebuttal on here to see if I can share that with you guys. Let's see, I don't think I have it on this one. So that's a possible risk with these properties, guys, is you may end up with something where your appraisal comes in low and now you're stuck in a pickle with it.
Speaker 1:But overall, guys, the birth strategy we have over 100 units. We've used the birth strategy on pretty much every single one of them, other than some seller finance deals that we've done where the seller is only asking for 5% or 10% down or something like that. But the vast majority of these deals we are using the BRRRR strategy and it allows us to continue to recycle those funds and we're ramping up our BRRRR stuff. Right now we're actually bringing somebody on to do commercial acquisitions. So we've used this in the apartment space, we've used it with trailers, we've used it with duplexes, single families, you name it. You can utilize this strategy anywhere in real estate investing and it allows you guys to build a lot of wealth very quickly. So, again, I wanted to share that with you guys.
Speaker 1:I appreciate you tuning in with me and listening to my voice for the last 30, some minutes here, and I appreciate you guys always tuning into the episodes. I would love it if you guys could share this today. This helps you. As I say in every episode, let people know that you're into real estate, let them know that you're into real estate investing. By you sharing this episode, they are going to know that you do real estate investing and hopefully it helps bring you deals private money lenders to help finance some of these deals and build your track record and credibility by sharing the episodes. And it helps us get the word out so we can continue to bring on guests who are going to bring tons of value for you guys every single week. So with that, if you're not on the buyers list, you can go to wisconsindiscountpropertiescom. Join the list.
Speaker 1:We just revamped our website a little bit. We're still working on it, so give us a little grace if by the time this thing drops, it's still not perfect. We're really interested in getting you guys quality deals. That's our number one priority and the website is kind of secondary. I would say the same for you If you're new and you're sitting out there, instead of going out and doing deals, you're sitting on the sidelines working on a website or getting some business cards or something. Just go do some deals first, but you can go out to the website, fill that out, get on the buyers list, start getting some of these deals sent to you. And if you're not ready to get on the buyer's list, you can give us a call or text on the website and we'll be happy to have a conversation with you and just help you feel out your goals, get you started on a path to build wealth through real estate investing. Thanks for tuning in, guys. We'll see you on the next episode.
