The Wisconsin Investor
Each week, we bring you interviews with some of Wisconsin's top real estate investors who share their tips, tricks, and strategies that you can implement right away. This show is dedicated to helping Wisconsin real estate investors elevate their game. Along with interviews, I'll also dive into hot topics in solo episodes and feature experts from various real estate sectors across Wisconsin.
The Wisconsin Investor
Walking Away: How One Couple Replaced Their Jobs With Real Estate in Just 3 Years
Matt and Catie Fihn transformed their family's future through real estate investing in just three short years. Starting with a simple conversation between moms at a playdate, they discovered a path that would ultimately free both of them from their corporate careers and allow them to be present for their young children's formative years.
Their approach wasn't about getting rich quick or building a massive empire—it was about thoughtfully replacing their W-2 incomes while creating flexibility and freedom. After completing their first flip in Wauwatosa in 2022, they gained confidence and momentum. Soon Matt was able to leave his corporate job at Thermo Fisher Scientific to become the primary caregiver for their children while managing their growing business. Now Catie is joining him, leaving her 19-year career behind to go all-in on their real estate ventures.
The Fihns share candidly about their journey, including how they utilized hard money lending to fund their first projects, their meticulous approach to the BRRRR method for rental acquisitions, and how they manage properties across Wisconsin without living nearby. They've calculated missing between 20-30 potential deals worth approximately $500,000 while juggling jobs and parenting—missed opportunities they're now positioned to capitalize on with both partners fully dedicated to their business.
What makes their story so compelling is the intentionality behind their decisions. Rather than chasing undefined wealth, they focused on creating enough cashflow to support their desired lifestyle—one that prioritizes time with their young homeschooled children. As Matt puts it, "I cannot imagine waking up and being to work at a certain time or leaving at a certain time, or having to delegate your three weeks of vacation... I get the benefit of hanging out with the two coolest people in the world every day."
Ready to create your own real estate success story? Start following Wisconsin Discount Properties today for weekly investment opportunities that could change your future. www.wisconsindiscountproperties.com.
Welcome back to another episode of the Wisconsin Investor. I am your host, corey Raymond, and I have another amazing couple that we're going to be featuring on today's podcast. But before we get into that, I'm going to give a little commercial here for Wisconsin Discount Properties, who sponsors this show, and what I like to do on these if you've been listening lately is feature a deal that we've recently had and just hopefully give you some FOMO if you didn't buy it to get you off the couch and into the game. And so we recently had a deal up in Marinette, wisconsin, which I jokingly say now is about to double in value. After our president said they're going to be bringing shipbuilding back and make shipbuilding great again, I wrote a little chat GPT article that said home prices in Marinette double overnight based on that, but all joking aside, we did have a great deal.
Speaker 1:Nobody bought it, so we put it back out to the list as a buy it now deal, which basically means if you're the first one to bring us the number that we put in that email, we will sell it to you as long as you have the appropriate funds, and we did. We had a young fellow come in. He was partnering with a veteran on the deal. We had dropped the price down a little bit. I just got word from them they're going to be making over $50,000 on this flip up in Marinette, wisconsin.
Speaker 1:So I say all that to say, hey, there's some great deals every single week that hit your inbox that get passed on by tons of people. Over 2000 people are on this buyer's list and only one person offered on this deal and they're going to make $50,000 on it. So you can get on that list by going to wisconsindiscountpropertiescom, plug your information in and you'll start getting those emails every single Monday morning and a little text message to tell you to check the email. With that, let's get into today's episode. I have Matt and Katie Finn on the episode. What's up, guys? How you doing.
Speaker 2:How are you?
Speaker 1:Doing great, doing great. Where are you guys based out of Washington? Washington, port Washington, right, port Washington, yeah, it's halfway between Milwaukee and Sheboygan. We're right between the two Awesome, very cool, and you guys got started in this game not that long ago. Tell everybody a little bit about when you got started, how you got started and where things are at today for you.
Speaker 2:Nita, explain that a little bit. We've been in the game since the spring of 2022. We actually got our start in the real estate game from a friend of mine. We just moved out to Port Washington in the fall of 2021. And right off the bat, I made a friend out here who was a stay-at-home mom and we had a play date and she was just telling me about her business and I said, okay, what do you do? Because she was kind of texting a little bit here and there while we were having our play date and she was just talking about how she's a real estate investor and I said, oh, okay, and she said it was the most wonderful thing. You know. She did say it's a lot of work, it's, you know, it can be stressful, it's got its ups and downs, but it's something that had been allowing her to be a stay at home mom. Well, during this time, I, my husband and I the full Matt had already been talking about her previous husband, the one I've been with this whole time.
Speaker 2:This guy right here Awesome. So you know I that really spoke to me because we had been talking for a long time about how, as much as I've always liked the job that I've had and the employer that I've had, I want to be home with our kids. We've got two little kids and I've been trying to figure out what I could do to be at home with them.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:So we decided to go for it. We started flipping houses in 2022. We started acquiring rental properties in 2023. And I was just taking off, and then I'll let Matt explain how it's benefited him.
Speaker 3:Yeah, I was able to quit my W2 two years ago Nice, and it's been about two years, okay and then I became the stay-at-home dad, so to speak, so I was taking care of the kids and then running the business. I guess you could say about 100 or 80% of the time. Okay, would have about 20 percent of doing the behind the scenes, like the cutting the checks and running the numbers and stuff like that, where I would go and see the houses, okay, and determine the rehab and thing, uh, things like that. But, um, also having two little kids, I was a stay-at-home dad, you know, teaching them, um, getting them out for play dates, taking them to museums, zm zoos, uh, the homeschooling community out in azaki county is really nice, too nice, so there's a big group of people that um have classes formed, so it was really up to me to get to all those things, plus running this business by myself. So, um, so it's been.
Speaker 3:It's been a challenge and a tough road, but it's been a great road. Um, I cannot imagine waking up and being to work on at a certain time or leaving at a certain time, or having to delegate your three weeks of vacation. Yeah, uh, I don't have to do that anymore and I get the benefit of hanging out with the two coolest people in the world and my, you know who I think are the two coolest people in the world um, every day, and I get to see them grow. And then, um, yeah, it's just, it's, it's been awesome. I I could not have planned it any better or expected anything better.
Speaker 1:It's just been, it's been great that's awesome, man, you said the two coolest people you know. But we haven't been hanging out every day. I'm kind kind of confused by that.
Speaker 3:I might change Okay.
Speaker 1:Maybe I can squeeze my way in there in a third or fourth, maybe behind Katie Okay.
Speaker 3:I'll have to say the three coolest people. There you go, there you go, exactly.
Speaker 1:What did you do? What was your W2 prior? Matt?
Speaker 3:So I was an account manager for, for Thermo Fisher Scientific. Oh, okay, and they were the so during the COVID vaccination. So during the COVID phase, they were the sole maker of all the COVID vaccinations for the world.
Speaker 1:Oh, my goodness.
Speaker 3:They're based on the east side of Milwaukee.
Speaker 1:Okay.
Speaker 3:I worked second shift so I had the, I guess like the more of like the Asian part of the country, because they were at the same time or time zone that I was when I was working. Yeah, so it was an interesting job, you know. I mean it was cool just seeing everything and it was. It wasn't a bad place to work, it was a nice place to work, the benefits and, uh, the little you know. You get free lunches and you know the. I think I got four weeks of vacation there, which is a lot more than some people get on their w2s for sure, um, they're pretty lenient on you know stuff with kids, you know things like that. And uh, I worked second shift, like I said, and I had the entire place to myself.
Speaker 3:No one else worked second shift oh my goodness, I was there by myself so it was pretty nice like I could blast music and and work and answer phone calls when I needed. So it was a nice place. But yeah, um, when we got this opportunity, when we got our first flip, I was was still working. So I was managing the flip, running materials over to this place while watching them taking a nap, getting up, going to work, going to work until 11 o'clock, getting up at like 5 or 6 and then taking care of them, because then she would go to work.
Speaker 3:So it was a brutal schedule for two years. Was it two years?
Speaker 2:something like that and at that point our kids were, they were babies they were three and one. Yeah, because you quit in the fall of 22, so they were three and one, no, four and two.
Speaker 1:Four and two, yeah four, okay, okay, yeah, that's a, that's a. They need you at that age. Yeah, for sure.
Speaker 3:So I mean it was um, it was a brutal schedule and then, um, yeah, yeah, I think we got our first one done and then we got our second one in.
Speaker 2:In December.
Speaker 3:Where was that one at Bayside Bayside, and that was a really big remodel too, okay, and then I think we got that one. Was that one halfway done when I quit?
Speaker 2:We are not close on that one yet.
Speaker 3:We got the one, was that one halfway done when I quit. We are not close on that one yet you got.
Speaker 2:We got the one right after you quit.
Speaker 3:Okay, okay, yeah, so it was pretty shortly after, after our first flip and then I, yeah, put in my notice and kind of like I don't think they were very happy that I did, because I was the only one that wanted to go. Uh. So yeah, I got some attitude and all that other stuff, but I was kind of expecting that was going to happen, just because, you know, no one else wanted to work that ship. That's right.
Speaker 1:That's right still the best move we made it is what it is yeah one of the a couple points I want to go back to here. I I did this, something similar. So I used to work for a company that sold like athletic recruiting packages the high school athletes. So I would have to do my pre-work in the morning for my appointments for the evening and then I had to do all these calls with people. Like 4 PM I would start until like I do Hawaii calls at midnight, right, and so it's four to midnight, so I had like a three hour window in the middle of the day to see my kids, hang with my kids and start the business.
Speaker 1:And it was a grind. I mean, I feel your pain because it's like you're just squeezing it in in the pockets of your life when you're starting. And so, like I know, for me sometimes I felt like gosh, this is like never going to materialize, to where I can quit. And then there was just this like momentum that eventually picked up where I was. Like that eventually picked up where I was. Like I can't afford to work anymore, like it's literally costing me money to work.
Speaker 1:And my kids were. My kids were about the same age as when you started. Like my daughter was three and she was starting to get into like dance and recitals and I couldn't be there, you know, to be watching. It was breaking my heart, you know to have that happen. So so that the other thing, katie, I want to go back to this is you. You talked about how this all stemmed from one conversation. Were you guys looking at real estate at all prior to that one conversation, or was it just really that one conversation that was the spark to get you guys going on this investing journey?
Speaker 2:So our son was born in the fall of 2018 and he's our oldest one. He's a six-year-old. At that point we had started looking into real estate a little bit, but we didn't know anything about it. I remember when he was maybe a month old, we would put him in the car seat and he and I would drive up to Sheboygan because we were already starting to look for things that were just on the MLS. We didn't know anything about the BRRRR method. We typically only buy properties with the BRRRR method for rentals. We didn't know anything about that. So every property we looked at up there we went, ah, I want to put in how much for a 20 down on this, and then do we want to put in money for the repairs that need to be made? So we had started entertaining the idea way back when he was born.
Speaker 2:But but he's kind of hanging out behind me here, but he and then we just kind of you know, we got busy with parent life. I went back to work after maternity leave. He was still working, so we kind of put it on the back burner. I didn't really think about it. But then, three years later, we moved out to Port Washington, where we are now? Yeah, and yeah, I had that one conversation with my friend and um I, it really just got the wheels turning for me and I went okay, well, she's got a kid and now she's had two more since then.
Speaker 2:So she's got three kids and you know, here they, you know she's a stay at home mom. This is allowing her to be a stay at home mom from the cashflow, from the rentals. So you know, she was really building up my confidence with it too. She said you know, if I can do it, anybody can do it. And you know she said it can be stressful. It can. It definitely has its ups and downs. You're going to have your good days, you're going to have your bad days, but if you want to be home with your kids, it's definitely something that you want to at least entertain. So I remember coming home from that play date and I was talking to him about it and said you know, the kids had a great time, we had a great time. And I mentioned that she does real estate and I'm like I think we need to revisit this, like there's gotta be something here. We need to get back into it. I think this could really help us out.
Speaker 1:That's awesome, I think that's so such an important point I wanted to go back to. I picked up on that right away because so many're listening to this and you haven't started yet. This is the conversation, it can be our conversation, that the you know I'm having with the fins right now. That is the spark that drives you, or it could be. You listen to this and then you go talk to somebody else and they tell you about how they're investing in real estate or thinking about it, and it's just that little spark that you need to just make that little switch. But look at the ripple effect of that one conversation. Now, matt, you're home with your kids, homeschooling your kids, so you get to spend way more time than most parents ever get to spend with their kids. Good or bad, some days, probably better than others. Right, I'm homeschool as well. I know the struggle is real. And then, katie, you got a big announcement to make because by the time this episode drops, do you want to share what, what's happening with you?
Speaker 2:I am also quitting my job. Let's go. Yeah, Yep, Yep, so um, I'm going to be leaving at the end of April. Um, I, you know, like I like I always say it's I work for a really good employer.
Speaker 2:They're a great place to be I'll never say anything different and I've had a great supervisor. I work with excellent people. I've been where I'm at for 19 years, so my whole working life, like since college, and but now we're at a point with our business where I don't need to be there and it's kind of like you said with your business you can't afford to work a full-time job anymore because you're missing so many opportunities. And that's exactly where we're at right now. So, um, leaving as I am, as I am leaving in a month, is going to allow me to, number one, be home more with our kids, which is something that my heart has been crying for for a couple of years now, and I think a lot of parents can relate to that. Um, and especially with the homeschooling now I will be available to you know, section things off and tackle half the homeschooling. Now I will be available to you know, section things off and tackle half the homeschooling, so he doesn't feel responsible for all of it.
Speaker 2:And I can also spend the other half of my time when he's taking care of the kids to run the business too, so then we can start ramping everything up and keep on growing as we have been. So it's a big step.
Speaker 1:Thank you, it's something we've been working at for a few years now, and now it's coming to fruition. So here we are. When I started I was like the hill was so big to climb right, to go from zero to one felt like I was pushing a rock up the hill right. And then I got. Once I started getting a few deals, I was like, oh, this isn't so scary, it's actually just. It's kind of, you know, you have your good days and your bad, but like it's just math really, at the end of the day is what it starts boiling down to. And how efficient can I get my contractors? And how efficient can I get my contractors? How efficient can I get this? Like how can I be more competitive on deals? How can I get cheaper money?
Speaker 1:Like all of these kinds of questions come in the problems that you're solving. But then, like once you start getting some momentum with that, you're like, uh, well, I can't really work anymore Cause this is costing too. And then you're like, boom, before you know it, you're out of your job and you're like, ah, you know. And then you're like, what am I going to do with my time? Like I have all this time now. And then you're like gosh, I don't have enough time. How do I get more time? Now? I got to hire people in my business Cause I don't know, it's just a crazy thing, but it happened for you guys really quickly. I mean, this is three years in the making and here you guys are. Your lives are completely different.
Speaker 3:Yeah, and I missed opportunities too. I I always kept kind of track of that and just with the missed opportunities, I think we missed out on something between like 20 or 30 homes that we could have acquired, and these were homes that were, just like you know, either put out there or just or just presented to us by by wholesalers or anything like that and it was not being able to either walk the properties.
Speaker 3:I mean, everybody in real estate knows you walk into a hoarder home. You're not going to bring kids into something like that, right? So we, you know, not having availability to walk the property or, um, just forgetting about getting back to somebody because you've got two little kids that you have to take care of, and then by the time you realize, oh, crap, crap, I forgot to respond. You know the house has already been sold and it's going to be nice not having to worry about those missed opportunities anymore, for sure.
Speaker 1:How many deals did you say you think you've had to?
Speaker 3:be missed. It was probably easily somewhere between 20 and 30. And that was flips and duplexes and you know, granted it didn't affect our business, you know, because obviously we're still at the spot where we are. But I can only imagine if we would have I'm not trying to make an excuse, but like if we would have actually had the time to do those things, she probably could have been out, you know, like a year and a half sooner.
Speaker 2:It's kind of a catch 22. Like I could have left sooner so we could have had time to do the the properties that we miss. But at the time we were also like, okay, should we do this? Are we ready for both of us to not be there? You know, it's scary.
Speaker 1:It's scary walking away from a W-2 job. Yeah, you got the comfort. You got the comfort in the secured paycheck and you're walking out into the unknown right.
Speaker 2:Yep, and I think also we are not, and this is an entirely different conversation to go into. But I don't think that we are taught in our society to do our own thing and to run our own businesses. You know, we're taught to get a job, go the stability route, work until 65, 70, whatever retirement age is going to be in the future, and you just be happy with that. And I think you get a lot of uncertainty and a lot of funny looks from people sometimes when you say, hey, I'm putting my W2 job to run my own business. You know, because I think it's just we're not taught to think that that actually works. But it does A hundred percent. Does you just have to put it in the app?
Speaker 1:Most people. It's so far out there to think about that, like what you're going to do. You're crazy, right? Oh my God, I can't believe we're going to do that, right. Then, like once you that's we always hear that that's who you become and you start getting around and some you go to some of the meetups and like we run the RAS success club in green Bay and there's RIA meetups and there's caffeine and cash flows and there's all these opportunities in Wisconsin to meet other people doing this business.
Speaker 1:And I think, like you mentioned to Katie, she was doing it. You got around somebody who was doing it. She was somebody who was your influence and you're like this is you saw what was possible and what was real from somebody who you who knew wasn't faking it. You saw her living her life and it gave you the confidence to go forward and and and move forward and get Matt first and take that first step and now you are following suit, which is super exciting. So that's just a life-changing thing. And again it comes back to the ripple effect and like if you're out here listening to this and you're already somebody who's in a position like where Matt and Katie are going to be, you know. Think about that. Like, who in your life could you influence? That's in a W-2 that wants out eventually, right, or maybe not even that. Maybe they just want to have an extra security blanket of owning rentals and someday down the road they're going to use that to pay for their kid's college or they're going Pass it On and Legacy Wealth and that kind of stuff. You're one conversation away.
Speaker 1:Don't be shy about what we do in this business. We're creating massive change for people. Finances is the number one stressor for most families and you guys out there, if you're having success with this, you have the key to the kingdom. You just got to share it with somebody. You never know how it's going to affect their life and what kind of change. And that was generational. I mean you think about that. You got a six and a four-year-old right now that now have, are going to have, mom and dad both home, and most kids in this country are raised by their peers now at school, right, and you guys are choosing to raise your kids and be around them and they're going to be so much better off for it. And then how does that affect the generation after? And the generate? I mean it's just I get so much chills when I start thinking about the power of the generational impact of what we do in this business. And it's so cool.
Speaker 2:Absolutely.
Speaker 1:Yeah, absolutely. Well, that's great. So you guys have been doing a lot of flips. You got some rentals going. What was the? I guess I want to go back to the leaving the job thing and, matt, you can start there, and then, katie, we'll go to you. What was there? A certain dollar amount that you said you had to have saved up before you left, a certain amount of deals in the pipeline before you could leave. Like, what was that conversation? How'd that start and where did you guys decide like this is when it's going to happen?
Speaker 3:I think, for um, for the flips. So we did, we did the one we had. Our first one was in Wauwatosa, and that that was a nice flip and we made some good money on that one. And we were like, okay, you know, we could do this. And then it came down to just the simple fact of just replacing my income and that's all we were worried about at the time. We weren't worried about making anything more, we weren't worried about rental properties, we weren't worried about any of that. It was let's just get enough flips to supplement my, my normal income at my W2, and we can do this. And and and we did it, like I said, on a part-time basis.
Speaker 3:So that was, um, I think our, I think our second flip took care of my, took care of my W2 income. Uh, we made, we made good money on that one too. Um, and then after that we were just like, okay, we can do this. So that's when I, I cut down, cut down. And then we've always kind of had that mindset, you know, cause we, we live, we live comfortably, but we don't like live out of our means either, you know, we don't have massive credit card debts or anything like that we don't do anything crazy.
Speaker 3:So we always kind of kept it like what can we do? You know, if we can make this dollar amount, then we're going to be okay. And we always went on that. And then, as soon as we did that, as soon as we knew that we could make that dollar amount, then we started amping up the business. You know, let's get some rental properties, let's do this, cause it wasn't until maybe a year after I quit that she was just getting, she was getting burned out. And I'm like, okay, now we, now we need to start really pushing, pushing it to get more income so we can both leave. And that's when we really started acquiring the rental properties and started pushing more flips and I've got yeah, we've got a cameo going on.
Speaker 1:We've got a cameo going on back there for those of you listening.
Speaker 3:We had a little cutie leprechaun on St Paddy's Day.
Speaker 1:That's right, we're recording on St Paddy's Day and there was a leprechaun there for sure.
Speaker 3:But I think this is the type of business, too, where you can really determine your own wealth, right. And some and I'm not I'm not criticizing anybody when I say that some people just want to go crazy and have like all this, all this stuff, and there is nothing wrong with that whatsoever. But I think you can really just be comfortable and coast on what you think your comfort level is and still have what you want, right. And I think that's just a cool thing with real estate is you can go any way that you want and still experience the freedom that you want. You don't need to go so crazy, but you can't be lazy either, right, so crazy, but you can't be lazy either, right. And so there's like a fine line and that's really just determined on each individual what they want out of life, right? So I think this is one of the few businesses where you can pick or choose and be okay as long as you're, as long as you're a go-getter regardless, for sure, that's really interesting.
Speaker 1:My wife and I carry she's. She now fired herself from our business about a year ago, so she's just stay at home homeschooling and I don't say just stay at home, she has the hardest job of all of us. Like I get to come up, you know fun conversations, podcasts, all that stuff she's. She's dealing with the four kids and homeschooling and trying to get them to this event and that event and get them involved in the homeschool community and all this kind of stuff. But she fired herself.
Speaker 1:And then recently we've been having this conversation of like when do we stop pushing the goalposts? Right? Like when is there a point where we're at a certain yearly annual income from passive stuff? Right, that's kind of our new goal. It's like we want to get to a certain number passively every year that we know pretty consistently is going to come in the door, give or take. You know, with rentals it can change. You know, roofs go out, things break, so there's some fluctuation in there, right, but somewhere in this ballpark, right, and then it allows us to be able to pull back a little bit, right For a period of time. Our kids are only going to be this age for a certain period of time, once they're old and grown like, we can go as hard as we want. Then you know, and then we can go go build the Taj Mahal if we want, or whatever it is but.
Speaker 1:I think that's cool that you guys are kind of in that same boat. Like there's certain friends I have that are just killing it. I mean they are killing it and they have great work-life balance, but they're unicorns. A lot of these guys I see that are killing it'll either burn out and and move out, you know, move down the, you know pretty soon they'll just be gone, you won't hear from them ever again or, uh, something bad will happen to them Cause they're, they're going too quick and they're not making a good decision. I've been guilty of that too. Like I'm the, I'm all gas in this relationship and she's she's a good mix of gas and break, but we got to have some. That balance, I think, is something as, as our kids are getting a little older, we're kind of like, okay, maybe we don't have to go like 900 miles an hour, we can go like 450.
Speaker 3:Yeah, pretty good. So, yeah, and that's where she is. She's kind of the opposite, where she is really all the gas and I'm kind of like you don't need that pulse right now. And she's like no, yeah, we do, we do, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1:Well, I think what was interesting I was just running the numbers, man, on your thing Just, even if you guys made 20 grand, you hired everything out. You guys made 20 grand on each of those flips. Right, say, 30 flips, that's $500,000 of missed opportunity. And I think about that all the time. I kind of jokingly give people FOMO at the start of this with the advertisement, but also not because I, again, I believe in this business so much and the ripple effect it can have and how, how generationally this can impact people, and sometimes like just they're either.
Speaker 1:The issue is they don't have the financing, they don't have the time, they don't have the confidence, they don't have the education, whatever it is that's holding them back. But the problems that we solve in real estate aren't that complicated. It's like a few, just a few levers that you got to pull, maybe, and bam, you unlock $500,000 that were coming to your like. You didn't have to go search these things Like they were coming to your inbox. People were bringing them to you, imagine, not because they're searching for deals too on top of that, cause you have time, like it's just, yeah, opportunities are limitless.
Speaker 3:It's mind blowing. It is, it's really and it's I don't like and I think we're you know people that are listening to this too I want to count that as like a loss. It's just, it's kind of a. It's just a, it's part of the part of the deal. You know, yeah, it just is. Um, I wouldn't sacrifice my time with my kids for anything. So you know, you kind of do sacrifice not being able to go and see some of those homes, um, but at the same time, when you do have that time or that freedom to go do those things, you really have to push the pedal to the metal. You can't sit around and just kind of do whatever you want. So you got to take advantage of the time that you do have to try to make up for those losses.
Speaker 1:Yeah, this industry is speed to execution. Right Like you got to be able to pounce quickly because a good deal is not going to last long. Right Like you gotta be able to pounce quickly because a good deal is not gonna last long, right, Matt? That's why you guys need to find a good wholesaler that'll just send you inboxes every Monday morning with a little video walkthrough, so you don't even have to drive there.
Speaker 3:Do you know anybody who does that? I feel like there is one. Yeah, I think we got one this morning.
Speaker 2:I'd have to go look again we get texts at like 6.30 every morning from this 920 area code. It's like there's deals coming to us every single week. And all we have to do is analyze them and put in offers. It's like so simple.
Speaker 1:I should figure out who those people are. They're really awesome. All right, let's move on.
Speaker 2:They're pretty great.
Speaker 3:We'll give you their contact info, oh great, we've got a couple of deals from them.
Speaker 1:Oh perfect.
Speaker 3:Pretty legit.
Speaker 1:Perfect, all right, there's the shameless plug for the middle of the episode to keep you guys safe. Everybody's paying attention here, all right, anyway, well, I wanted to go real quick. I want to get into some of the just the details. So I love the big picture stuff that we just talked about and what you guys are doing and how quickly you guys have done this. Like it's very real, it's very possible and get rich thing Right. But let's talk about the financing thing. How did you guys finance that first deal? Did you guys have cash saved up? Private lenders, hard money lenders, like what was the financing strategy to get that first one?
Speaker 2:We use hard money for everything, so our first deal to would have been a hard money lender.
Speaker 1:Okay, awesome. Do you guys have a hard money lender? Do you use the same one every time? How did you find the hard money lender? What was the process for that? For those listening that are looking to get that first deal For the very first one.
Speaker 2:Yep, we heard about the hard money lender for our very first flip through. Actually, this goes back to the friend of mine that introduced me. That one spark conversation that I told you about was all it takes to get us on board with doing this. She had connected us to a realtor friend of hers who we actually ended up buying our next flip from.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:We ended up buying our next flip through him because she introduced us to him and he's the one who said oh, if you need a hard money lender, this is a you know a person that we go through. So he's the one who said oh, if you need a hard money lender, this is a person that we go through. So that's how we found that lender Awesome.
Speaker 1:Is this a company or is this a private person who lends?
Speaker 2:Well, we've used several lenders. Our biggest go-to is Good Faith Funding. Yeah, we love them.
Speaker 1:Good friends of the show here.
Speaker 2:Yes, and we do know other hard money lenders in the area that we have used to, more so in the Milwaukee area because we've done a lot of business down there.
Speaker 1:Okay, cool, very good. Well, a good point there, just to read it for the audience One conversation away. Just, we're going to keep beating this drum because it's right there. That's why I'm such a big believer in the networking groups. When you're starting out, get there Everything you need, every question you have. Somebody in that room already has the answer and has already been through it and can provide that for you. So that's phenomenal. So everything is hard money lending. Talk about the BRRRR strategy. I'm a huge BRRRR fan. I have a course on the BRRRR strategy. I've built our entire portfolio utilizing the BRRRR strategy. What is your guys' strategy? How do you guys execute the burn? Just tell everybody a little bit about that process, for how you guys have done it.
Speaker 2:Okay. So I am kind of obsessive about the numbers that we run. So mine is a little bit of a complicated process. Maybe I make it more complicated than I need to, but we look over our deals over and over again before putting in an offer. We're very careful. So we look at a property If we're specifically coming at it from a rental perspective, first of all, we will make sure that the lender that we're going to use is going to be able to finance it at nearly 100% between the rehab and the purchase price. That doesn't always happen. If it doesn't happen, we have to estimate how much money we're going to have to come out of pocket With the refinancing process. Then I look at what the mortgage is going to be. I look at what the estimated rents are going to be. We do have several property managers for all of our rentals, so whoever would be in that area that we would ask them to manage it for, we bounce the rents off of them, take the mortgage and then we subtract capex, maintenance, vacancy, property management fees and then we look at what's left over after that and see, okay, is this adequate cash flow for what we want? Are we going strictly for cashflow Over the last couple of years, since we've been working at getting me out of my job, we've been looking at rental income as a way to replace my income.
Speaker 2:So for us at least for the last couple of years, it's been all about the cashflow. We have found good deals. We currently have seven rental properties and they have been done through the BRRRR method. But we've looked at that, saying, okay, is that going to be enough cashflow? We also calculate cash on cash return.
Speaker 2:But the nice thing about that that's just speaking in terms of cashflow. But if you're just looking at the BRRRR strategy as a whole, the wonderful thing about that is that you can buy a property, you can rehab it and build equity into it that way, get it refinanced and you have instant equity without really putting in any of your own money or, if you have to, not very much of your own money if you're doing it right. And that is when you think about the long-term effect that that can have on your business. That is I don't want to say free money, because you know you have to put in the work to make it happen, but essentially that's about as free of money as you know you have to put in the work to make it happen, but essentially that's about as free of money as you can get from anyone you're creating, you're like creating money you're creating money, yeah when people say I'm making money.
Speaker 1:You literally are making money when you do the burr method. Yeah, yeah yeah, it's.
Speaker 2:It's the coolest thing and actually the the friend of mine. Going back to her again, she does things through the burr method, so I learned about that right away from her.
Speaker 1:I need to meet this. I need to meet this friend. Let's get her on a podcast next, because she's going to help a lot of people too, I think.
Speaker 1:She's a go-getter, that's for sure, for those of you listening that aren't familiar with the BRRRR, most people listening to this probably are but it stands for buy, rehab, rent, refinance, repeat, if you want to add the extra one in there and it's a way to recycle money too. Katie, I think you mentioned something there. Sometimes you got to stick some cash into these right. At least on the initial phase you're going to have to have some access to cash. So yesterday I was helping somebody on our team that works for us. She brought capital stacking to me and I've never really heard of that before, but there's companies out there that'll help you get business credit cards with 0% interest for like nine to 18 months or whatever it is in cash advance. You can use the cash advance 0% and you can use that for that short period of time. That was a really creative option I thought of to access cash for that down payment if you need it from a commercial lender, if you're going the commercial lending route, which is typically going to be cheaper but they're typically going to require some capital upfront, at least for the construction phase or, like you said, if the hard money lender can't quite fund everything, you may have to come with some cash maybe. Another option I personally love Helox. That's my favorite tool to use to access capital and use for that short period of time. But whatever way you can get it that's the part where you got to get a little gritty and dirty sometimes is figuring out how am I going to get some cash.
Speaker 1:Private lenders is another great option. Friends and family who have money sitting in a high yield savings account making maybe 3%, 4%. You can get it from them for paying 10% and they'll be tickled pink. You get some money and everybody's happy, everybody's winning in that deal. So, yes, I love the Burr method so you can build infinite wealth Again. Kind of Matt, you said it earlier. It's like, then, really like, just it's just how many do you want to do at that point? So that's super exciting. So what does the future look like for you guys? You're both going to be free from the W2s Yep. What's the goals? What does this look like when we talk to you guys in 12 months from now?
Speaker 2:where are we going to be? Oh, you want to answer that one?
Speaker 3:That's a good question. Wearing gold hats, I don't know, um, yeah, uh, just just, I think, just going, you know, like pedal to the metal. Yeah, you know this, this next coming couple months and then next year, like I said, and we were talking a little bit off air we'd like to get a second home and in the door county area. So that's, that's a goal for us and just being able to to do what we want when we want, live comfortably and being able to pass it on to our kids. So I don't know, I think we were talking about maybe this year acquiring what was it?
Speaker 3:four, four more rentals I think so and then this year I think, we want to acquire like one or two flips a month. Nice, so the flips are there already. Um, the rentals have not been, but I'm not too worried about that. They'll come and they come. One a quarter.
Speaker 1:One a quarter keeps the doctor away.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and we do buy all over the state too, so I feel like it's not going to be extremely difficult. We just have to have the time to look, and we're going to have that now.
Speaker 3:I love that. I love that. Yeah, that's been interesting. All over the state is fun.
Speaker 1:I was just going to say I was about to, I was about to lead us down to wrapping this, until you said that now I'm like, oh, we gotta, we gotta unpack this animal here. Talk about that. Like, how do you guys manage, you know, these projects and and, uh, rentals all over the state? What's that look like?
Speaker 2:You gotta have partners. You trust a lot of networking, a lot of phone calls, a lot of video walkthroughs, a couple of actual trips out to the properties. Um, we do have partners in various areas of the state and, you know, I I feel like you definitely have to vet them, do they? Do they know how to? I mean, we run our own arvs, but if it's an area that we're not extremely familiar with, like our own backyard, um, we're gonna ask, ask them to double check our ARVs and make sure that they're right. You just have to make sure you're buying right. You have to trust the people that you're working with. If it's a realtor, contractors, wholesalers, you just have to make sure you're building up a really good team of partners, and otherwise it's kind of a wing and a prayer.
Speaker 1:It is I mean, if you are I love the honesty there because so many people would say well, we're buttoned up and this is our process, this is what we're doing.
Speaker 3:You guys are just like, ah, we're just gonna take the flyer here yeah, and I think for for like our first time, like, um, we had we have a four unit in Beloit and then we have a flip going on in Beloit right now, and for like the the, for those it was calling 10 electricians and calling 10 plumbers and calling 10 HVAC guys and calling 10 general contractors, or if the general contractors didn't do this, call 10 flooring guys, and then when I would go out to the property there would literally be like 30 people at the house placing quotes.
Speaker 3:And it's interesting because some guys don't like that, you know for sure. Walk in and oh, I know that guy and he does terrible work or this or that. I'm not listening to any of that. You know. I'm like, hey, I live three hours away. This is when I could get you guys in give me your quotes. And some guys do, and some guys don't like it. They don't give me their quotes and it's like okay, that's all right you know, but that's the system that's kind of how we do it.
Speaker 3:You make one trip out to that property, yeah, and then you know I, I drive out to these properties maybe once every two weeks. We'll get like video, we'll get video updates from these people, um, but I usually tend to buy the materials myself because I think it saves a lot of money instead of having those guys buy it. Sure, so, depending on on where it is, sometimes I'll deliver materials myself, okay, and then I get to see progress and things like that. But like kind of what kate said, it's just, uh, sometimes you don't know what you're going to get.
Speaker 2:You just got to take a chance.
Speaker 3:But you know, if you find someone really really good and they're awesome and their prices are spot on, you know you, you take care of those people and they take care of you back.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I mean, I would say, for not being right there and not having the properties easily accessible to us.
Speaker 2:I would say that we're about as buttoned up as you can be, but I think you know anybody and I'm sure anybody who has ever done investing not in their backyard knows that you sometimes just have to rely on the people who are in that area to give you the information that you need and so far it's been mostly good, but I mean it's. I do feel it's a little bit riskier than investing in the city that you live in or the County that you live in, you know, for obvious reasons. But again, if you're motivated to do it and if you're like me and if you just want to get home, if you need to build up that business volume and you just need to do it now, you're going to buy whatever.
Speaker 1:Yeah, one of my buddies he's. He always talks about your intensity level to your goal. Are you as like a zero is like don't care if I ever hit it. A 10 is like I don't care what it takes, I am hitting this goal and we're going to do it in this short timeframe. Right, and you know that that dictates. Like you said, some people they're like, hey, cool, if I retire in 10 years, great, and so I have different advice. A lot of times, if they're asking me for advice, then somebody who's like I want to get out ASAP. I was like okay, we got some work to do. Well, let's do it quick. All right, here's what we're gonna have to do.
Speaker 2:Step one, two, three, four, five by this date intensity level.
Speaker 1:You're up there. It sounds like of uh, we're level 24 to 26. I would say well, it sounds like it worked. That's phenomenal, so that's great. Now, when you real last question before we wrap here, you said partners in other places. Are these people who are actually equity partners in the deal, debt partners in the deal? Are they just people you consider, uh, part of your quote-unquote team?
Speaker 3:for the team okay yeah, so you guys are 100% owning these things yeah so it's like it's um realtors, uh, that we have that we've meted and contacted with and had conversations with, so they know exactly what we want or what we're looking for. Okay, um, we might have, we might have multiple realtors in certain areas that that do that for us, and then we kind of always do the um, you bring us the deal, you sell it.
Speaker 3:Yeah, that's um I know, please don't do it the other way, please don't do it together, I know I should say I know some people I've heard of stories of people doing the other way so we like to take care of the people that take care of us. So once you tell realtors that but they usually are pretty they're're like, okay, I can do this, and so they're not. They're more inclined to to to send you stuff. So, yeah, yeah, contractors too. It's like I said, it's just phone calls and vetting and making sure you know if you pay those guys right away and you appreciate what they, what they do.
Speaker 3:They're going to usually go above and beyond for you. So that's awesome. That they do.
Speaker 1:They're gonna usually go above and beyond for you. So, yeah, that's awesome, that's some great. Yeah, that's a great. I love the ending here. I love how we're wrapping this because that's so important. And again, yes, I've had people. When I started doing a lot of flips, there was a friend of mine who was doing flips. Realtor brought him the deal closed on the dollars. Then he sold with with somebody else and I was like dude, what are you doing? Good, guess what? Guess who's never getting another deal from that realtor. Yeah, for sure.
Speaker 3:Right, yeah, that guy, I'm glad hey.
Speaker 1:I'm right here. I'll list with you. Well, that's awesome because we always wrap with a little fun question here. So for you guys, what is your favorite Wisconsin tradition or place to visit in the great state of Wisco?
Speaker 2:Oh, door County, state of Wisco. Oh, door County. For sure, by far For sure. We love it up there. We love where we live too. But we, like Matt said earlier, we want to buy another home in Door County. I know everybody in the world does, but we've made it our goal to do that. I mean, I think Door County is the most beautiful place to vacation it's. There's so much to do up there for adults and for kids, and when you've got little kids like us, it's a perfect place to go. Lots of good restaurants, what else?
Speaker 3:I would say Door County. Like I was telling you off air, it's hard for me to come home when we're up there. Man, it's just like I said, I love the area that we live in, I love Zaki County. It's safe and it's a great place to raise a family. But, man, and it's a great place to raise a family, but, man, it's hard to come home.
Speaker 1:Yeah, you don't have to, max, you're going to be free. You can make all the choices you want in the world of where you work from. You can make those same phone calls from Door County, right, yeah, that's awesome. Well, thanks guys for being on here. This was awesome. I got a ton of nuggets out of it. Please share it. We want to get the word out there. Like we said, that ripple effect is real. Your share on whatever social media channel or a direct link to somebody out there who's interested in real estate could be the difference between them having to work at W2 and getting the spark, like what Katie and Matt got here to get her out of her job and to create this freedom for her family. So appreciate you guys being on and thanks for everybody listening. This has.
