The Wisconsin Investor
Each week, we bring you interviews with some of Wisconsin's top real estate investors who share their tips, tricks, and strategies that you can implement right away. This show is dedicated to helping Wisconsin real estate investors elevate their game. Along with interviews, I'll also dive into hot topics in solo episodes and feature experts from various real estate sectors across Wisconsin.
The Wisconsin Investor
Should I Wait To Buy Real Estate in 2025 or Buy Real Estate and Wait
The episode dives into the pressing question: should you wait to buy real estate or invest now? Highlighting key data on equity, supply, and future buyer demographics, we argue that waiting could cost you significantly in potential investment appreciation.
• The importance of understanding current real estate market dynamics
• Analyzing loan to value ratios and homeowner equity
• The benefits of utilizing a HELOC for investment opportunities
• Exploring supply and demand fundamentals in real estate
• Demographic trends affecting first-time homebuyers in the coming years
• The cost of waiting to invest against potential appreciation losses
• Encouragement to buy now and let real estate build wealth over time
Hey everybody, welcome back to another episode of the Wisconsin Investor Podcast. I am your host, corey Raymond, and today I've got a special little treat, hopefully for all of you guys. I'm going to be doing a solo episode here to kick us off in this new year and get us started, hopefully, in the right direction to make 2025 everybody's best year. Yet that's listening to the show. So for those of you who've never heard the show before, usually we have a guest on here. We're discussing a topic or their history or their successes, their failures, that sort of thing, and I would encourage you to go back and listen to any of the other episodes prior to today. But today what I wanted to do was just talk about the state of our current real estate environment nationally and kind of a bigger global picture, and hopefully answer this question. I get a lot Should I wait to buy real estate or should I buy real estate and wait? And so for those of you listening on the audio versions of this, if you're streaming this on the Apple Podcasts or on Spotify or something like that, this may be one you want to go over to YouTube and check out. After this, I'm going to be showing some graphs and some charts and some other things, but I'll explain them all as best I can here to hopefully paint the visual for you if you're listening to this while you're driving or at the gym or whatever you're doing and so hopefully the main point of this will still come across and we'll be able to answer this question today of whether or not we should wait to buy real estate, whether that's because we want rates to come down or we want prices to come down or whatever the case may be or if we should just go ahead and start buying real estate and, as we say in the real estate world, wait and let real estate do its thing while you hold it. So that's the burning question, and where this comes from is.
Speaker 1:I talk to a lot of folks that sit on the sidelines, and I hear this a lot of times. When I'm talking to people who are our investors or want to be investors, a lot of what I've heard since I got started in real estate in 2016 was hey, man, you're crazy. Real estate's overpriced. There's going to be another crash. I think the sexy thing to do in real estate is always predict the next crash, right? Everybody wants to predict the next 08. They want to say ah, I told you so. Yeah, shouldn't have done that right. 08, all over again. All the signs were there. Why didn't you see it?
Speaker 1:The fact of the matter is there's been a lot of things that have been proved since 08. Thankfully, back then you could literally get a loan on a napkin. You could go in and you could get what's called the stated income loan. And you could go in and say, yeah, man, I work at Mickey D's, yeah, I make 600,000 a year and they'd give you a. Okay, cool, just put it on this app and sign and we'll go ahead. Go pick out your couple of million dollar house you want. You never had the means to ever pay that back. Who would have thought that that's a bad idea? Anybody who's gotten a loan in the last few years knows the process is much more intense now and they really make sure you're going to be able to repay them, because a lot of the banks learned is they're good at banking. They're not good at being landlords or property flippers and trying to take back a lot of these properties and try to resell them. They lost their butts by doing that and so that's one of the last things they want to do so. They want to underwrite up front as best they can to make sure that on the back end they're not taking back these properties, all right. So what we're going to look at is just some data today, and we're going to talk about some of the questions that we get a lot of times and where a lot of this data is coming from.
Speaker 1:I did not come up with this data. I'm not a data aggregator per se. I belong to a real estate group called the Collective Genius, and we meet four times a year and always in December. At our December meeting they bring in at least the last couple of years. They bring in some guys who are data aggregators and they look and they study and they try to predict what's going to happen in the market in the year to come or the coming years as it relates to real estate, and they look at all kinds of different factors, and so I'm just going to show you a snippet of some of the slides from even two years ago that they brought, because some of this data hasn't changed all that much in the last year.
Speaker 1:And then I've got some new slides on here and I'm going to show some graphs as well, to sort of make the point of where I stand on this question. I'm guessing, if you're listening to this podcast, you're going to probably guess where I stand on this. Should I wait to buy real estate, or buy real estate and wait? But let's get into it a little bit here. So the first graph I just wanted to show you guys and for again those of you guys listening what I'm looking at here is the average loan to value of homes. Okay, so in 2008, the average loan to value of homes was 81%. So that means if you have a loan, let's say it's worth a hundred thousand. Just for easy math, that means the average loan on that house across the country was $81,000. Okay, so pretty high LTVs, as we call that. Loan to values across the country was $81,000. So pretty high LTVs, as we call that loan to values across the country. In 2023, that average loan to value of the house was 42%, so almost half of the LTV. So that means that people have a ton of equity in their house.
Speaker 1:Now, if you've listened to any of the other podcasts that I talk about one of the topics and one of the things I think everybody needs to try to focus on if you want to be a successful investor is where to find money. So that means, let's say, you aren't one of those lucky homeowners that only has a 42% loan on their house, but you know somebody who owns a house and they've owned it maybe for a few years. That means that you can go talk to that person and try to figure out a way to partner with them or use them as a debt partner or something like that to use the equity in their house. So have them get a HELOC or a home equity line of credit and go out and use that equity to help grow your wealth. So it's one tool in the tool belt. But this is showing the average equity across the United States is $249,000 on their properties. Somebody wanted to cash out refi or what you can typically tap into. That means there's almost $200,000 that the average homeowner across the country can access.
Speaker 1:Now, if you're an average homeowner and you're sitting here listening to this, my advice, my stance on this, is if you do not have a HELOC, I strongly advise that you get one, and I know there's a lot of people who are against HELOCs or are timid about it because of 08. They maybe have some PTSD, maybe they lost some things back then. Here's what I can tell you that money is your money. You paid it right. You paid it to the loan every month. Now, some of it was appreciation as well, but you've been paying on your house. But you cannot access that money right now. You'd have to sell your house or refinance it completely to pull that money out.
Speaker 1:Getting a HELOC to me is a great safety net, even if you don't want to use it to invest in real estate. What most real estate investors do if you are looking to do that is you use it for a short-term bridge loan for yourself, either for a down payment or rehab money, or whatever the case is. You either refinance that property once it's fixed up or when you sell the flip. If you're doing it that way, you pay your home equity line back down to zero and then you just recycle it and you do it over and over again. If you're not at that level yet where you're comfortable enough to do that, getting a HELOC will give you security. So what I mean by that is you're going to at least have access to the cash in case of an emergency. Think of it like a low interest credit card you don't have to use the credit card, but you have it in case you need it. So you just don't want to get out of control like a credit card where you go put it all on black or something and hope to double your cash on that. Maybe not a best idea, but it's good to have it in case of emergencies as well. So, point here on this graph, lots of equity in houses right now, way different than 08. So for my crash, my people waiting for the next crash to come, it's going to be tough to do because people have a lot of equity here. So, even if housing prices fell for some reason which I'm going to show you guys some graphs here in a minute that will show there's a high likelihood that is not going to happen. But even if they did, they would have to fall drastically like historic levels beyond 2008 and 2011 in order for people to really be in trouble across the country on average.
Speaker 1:Okay, what we're looking at now is existing home inventory, and so you know again, I'm not an economist. I didn't go to school for economy or economics, if I'm going to use the proper term there, I guess. But what we do know, just the basics, is supply and demand right. If you have a lot of supply and not a lot of demand and demand right. If you have a lot of supply and not a lot of demand, prices have to come down right. Vice versa, if you have a lot of demand and very little supply, that means prices will go up Basic economics.
Speaker 1:Okay, so the chart that I'm showing here and again for you guys listening and the earbuds is in 2007, we had 4 million units of inventory. Comparatively speaking, in 2023, we had 1.15 million units of inventory. So about 25% less or 75% less inventory we had in 2023 than what we had in 2007. So that would give you one indication in 2007 why there maybe was a crash, right? Not only did you have these stated income loans, but then you also had this issue of oversupply, so you have way too much supply going on. We're going to show you a little graph of that here in a second. So you have way too much supply going on and we're going to show you a little graph of that here in a second. This is what we're looking at now US population versus inventory and so when we look at 2007, we'll see down here, your population was about 300 million, your inventory was way up over 4 million. Okay, so we had a huge inversion here, and when we go over to where we were in 2023, population now is 335 million and again inventory is way down below demand here of 1.15 million. So it literally like flip-flop, this chart that we're looking at the supply and demand equation. So again somebody asking, hey, when's the next crash? I'm going to see if I can time this thing out and then scoop up all these properties. Well, the supply and demand ratios right now are not looking good for a crash to happen, so you may be waiting forever. Another graph this was a new one this year that they showed, and I thought this one was really, really telling.
Speaker 1:What we're looking at here is the birth rate in the United States, and what the gentleman pointed out was look at where the average first-time home buyer was. So in 2006 to 2010, the average age of a first-time home buyer was 33. And so when you look at on this chart that we're looking at, they would have been born in 1977. That was when the average first-time home buyer was purchasing their first home. At that point, the birth rate was almost at our lowest we've ever seen. I don't know if that's because of the hippie revolution or what happened, but birth rate was really really low. What we've seen now in the decades since then is after 1977, it really started to tick up In 1987, that is the median age of today's first-time homebuyer. So that rate has changed. The average first-time homebuyer is now 38 years old, so that number has changed drastically.
Speaker 1:People are waiting longer and longer to buy a home and maybe that's an affordability thing. They don't have enough of the down payment yet. They're just maybe more wanting to be transient. Some of that's probably played into it. Especially after COVID People were probably a little bit more like hey, man, I want to work from wherever, so I don't want to be tied down to a house, I'll just rent and move around and be a little more fluid. So they're waiting longer to settle down and buy a house. Now. Birth rates Okay, that's definitely up quite a bit from 1977, but what we're seeing in the next couple of years is that people started having a lot more babies. For a little bit it's spikes and then it'll start to. It'll start to come back down to about where 1987 was, but in the next few years we're going to have a lot of folks in that, in that 38 year old range out, and if the if these numbers are correct and the age stays the same, what that's going to indicate is we're going to again have a lot more demand from the first-time homebuyer.
Speaker 1:So part of the argument is when we have higher rates, people aren't moving that much. They're like well, why would I sell my house with a 2% or 3% rate that I locked in during COVID and go buy a different house at a 6% or 7% rate? It doesn't make a lot of sense, right? But then you have these first-time homebuyers who are sitting there going hey, I don't have a house I have to sell. I don't know what a 2% or 3% interest rate looks like, so I'm not giving up this great rate to have to move. I'm giving up paying rent and building no equity in order to buy my first house, and so those people are going to be coming into the market here at a higher rate over the next few years. So that's another indication that demand is just going to continue to go up here.
Speaker 1:Now what we're looking at is if rates are coming down, should I wait to buy? So the prediction from this gentleman was rates are going to be. They're thinking in the next 12 months down to about 5.85%. I think a lot of that's going to depend on what happens with the Trump administration and what they do with tariffs headed back towards another recession that may or may sway things on the mortgage rate thing or not a recession, but just bigger gap in inflation. A little more inflation coming back in Could change things, okay, but what we're seeing is, today, what he's showing here is a graph. Let's say the rate is 7.25% and if we wait a year and let's say that we're predicting we're going to be a little more conservative and say the rate's going to be 6.25%, All right.
Speaker 1:What he's showing here is on a loan today and a 30 year fixed rate at 7.25%, no-transcript, at $640,000, your loan is now $670,000. You got to put another $7,500 down on the house because again, the house value went up. So your percentages all change here. All right, now you're saving a point in this example. So instead of 725, you're paying 625 for your interest rate, and this is again.
Speaker 1:Does it make sense to wait to buy a house or, in our case, an investment property, hoping that the rates will be lower? All right, so what's your payment difference. So if you wait a year and you get that lower 1% interest rate, your payment's going to change by 241 bucks in this example. Okay, over 12 months that gives you 2892 as far as a monthly payment. Your cost to refinance they're just throwing in some potential refinance costs $4,000. So your total cost to buy now is 6892. Where they're coming up with that again is your payment difference from waiting a year and then your cost to refinance. So total it's going to cost you $68. So if it appreciates 4.69%, you're losing $37,000 by not buying today. Then he's showing amortization lost, which these two things.
Speaker 1:I love that he shows this because it's often a forgotten piece, I think, of the puzzle. When people are looking at purchasing real estate, we think about appreciation and the old adage is don't bank on appreciation, right, you don't want to buy a property just because it's going to appreciate, right. But I think what gets lost is not only when you hold a rental property, for example. Not only are you getting typically appreciation and I'm going to show you guys a chart here in a second that's going to show average appreciation over the years, over the last 76 years but you're also getting debt pay down. So every single month one of your tenants is in your property, or if it's a multifamily or whatever, they are paying off your property for you and you're the benefactor of that debt pay down. So what he's shown here is you lost out on in one year. You lost out on $37,000 of appreciation and $6,000 of payments getting eaten up by your tenants, so your total cost of waiting is $43,000 in his example. Now, if you subtract out the cost to buy now, the payment difference, the cost to refinance and again he's just showing you, if you wait a year hoping for that interest rate to come down, your total cost is $6,892. Your total benefit, though, to buying now is $36,824. So what he's doing is he's taking the 43,000 bucks and he's subtracting out the cost of the 6,800 bucks, and that's how you're arriving at your $36,000. So you're 36 grand ahead by buying today. All right, so hopefully you're starting to see the best time to plant a tree was 20 years ago. The second best time is now, and the data is backing all this up Now again, just to go back to the crash thing.
Speaker 1:So I got started in real estate in 2016. So, on this chart, what we're looking at now is average annual appreciation and it goes all the way back to 1942 in the housing industry. And what we're seeing here is, when I got started in 2016, we were up quite a bit. So 2011 was the last year of depreciation from the crash, and so in 2012, we saw a 6% increase, 11% increase, 5%, 5%, 5%. So everybody at that time was like man, real estate's peaking again. It goes in these eight-year bubbles, eight-year cycles. You're going to see a crash. 2019, 2020 and 2021 was insane. It went up 10% and in 2021, it went up 19%. So not only did we not crash during COVID, which definitely had some fears around that, it just skyrocketed. It went bananas.
Speaker 1:So, looking at this chart, what we're seeing is, of the 70, or what is this? It's 81 years that they're showing here on this chart, real estate has lost very few times. It has lost five years from 2007 to 2011, and it lost value in 1990. 1991 was a 0%, so didn't lose, didn't gain. 1959 was 0%. 1962, 0%, 1949, 1955. So there's been a couple of years of 0%, not losing, not gaining value. But there's been some monster times in there. 1986, it went up 10%, 87, 8%. 2002 to 2005 was crazy. Double digits 1974 to 1979, double digits 1943 to 1947, gotten a 20-some percent increase Again, 2021, we saw 19%. So that's a pretty good record. They're showing here 75 years of winning, six losing. Okay, pretty good record, right? Pretty good chance. Your investment's going to continue to gain value, which was pretty awesome. All right.
Speaker 1:Now what they're predicting here is the 2025 real. This was their 2025 real estate forecast. What they're predicting for 2025 is a national, nationwide appreciation. So Wisconsin each market's going to be a little bit different here in Wisconsin, some of our markets grow pretty wild. Some are going to be below this average. Some are going to be right on average, just like anywhere. That's why it's an average. But they're predicting 4.1% year over year appreciation. So a five-year cumulative. They're showing a 30 to 35% gain on housing values in the next five years. They're showing top 100 housing analysts agree on about 27%. So take it from 27% to 35% Average annual increase is what they're expecting in the next five years. So again, is it going to crash? They're all saying quite the opposite. You're going to be sitting back going dang it.
Speaker 1:I wish I would have bought those properties five years ago. I'm going to show you guys some other graphs here to just back this up. This one is thanks to my good friends over at ChatGPT. We're going to see a little graph here that I plugged in some figures and I would encourage you to use ChatGPT if you haven't yet. It's a great tool to just plug in some scenarios and just play around with it a little bit. This really opened my eyes.
Speaker 1:When I started to do this, I was kind of sitting on the sidelines. When interest rates went up a year and a half ago, I quit acquiring properties. I think we were at like 140 units. I sold off a 40 unit apartment, which again now I'm kind of like dang, it probably shouldn't have done that but did it and got some headaches off my plate at least Not the best financial move, but maybe mentally the best move on that one and I just kind of sit there like, ah, interest rates are too high. Yeah, yeah, I'm going to wait, wait, wait, wait, wait. I was not taking my own advice. And then I started playing around with ChatGPT a little bit and coming up with some of these little graphs and what I've realized I kind of went back to my roots of when I got started in real estate.
Speaker 1:Now, my goal when I got started was. I wanted to pick up a hundred doors that cashflow 200 bucks a month, net each month in my pocket and do it as quickly as possible, and we hit a hundred doors within, I think, three years. It was pretty quick. Now they were not all cashflowing 200 bucks a door. What I didn't realize is I was using the Burr method A lot of times. It's not a great cashflow model. It's a great way to build wealth, but not a great cashflow model. So what I had to understand was we had a good business. Wholesaling real estate created some good cash for us, and so my goal was hey, I'm not going to try to retire off these a hundred doors, I'm not going to try to retire off these hundred doors, I'm just going to let them continue to build equity over time, and if they can just break even every year, I am happy as a clam because I don't need the cashflow right now from it.
Speaker 1:But what I'm realizing as I started to look at some of my personal financial statements and I started playing around some of these graphs is thank the Lord, I bought some of my personal financial statements and I started playing around some of these graphs is thank the Lord, I bought some of those properties when I did, and so I started saying you know what? Everybody back then told me prices were too high. I'm kind of as I've been in the game for a little while now I'm kind of a curmudgeon and I'm like, ah, I remember back when I used to be able to buy this property. For same property I could have bought for a third of what it is now what people want. The numbers are crazy. It don't make sense. Yeah, yeah, I'm kind of like the old, the old guy who walked uphill both ways, no shoes in the snow, that kind of thing.
Speaker 1:But as I started playing around with this, I realized, man, I need to get back to my roots and just keep acquiring properties and just adding to the portfolio and adding to the portfolio. And here's an example. Again, for those of you guys listening, I'm going to explain this to you, those of you guys on YouTube. You can take a look at this. But what we're seeing here is I plugged in, hey, chat, show me this loan, 20-year AM, 7% interest, with a 4% annual appreciation. And this is what it gave me.
Speaker 1:And I wanted to see what was my equity after five years. What was my equity after 10 years, 15 years and 20 years. And I chose a 20-year AM because a lot of the commercial banks or community banks that we work with, a lot of them are going to put us on a 20-year AM schedule. And again, for me my goal isn't necessarily cashflow at this point in time, it's about building equity. So, 20-year you're not going to get a lot of cashflow, but you do get that debt pay down a little bit more. So that gave us a monthly payment of $2,325.
Speaker 1:And again, actually even doing this activity prepping to do this podcast for you guys, this next chart I'm going to show you guys really opened my eyes. But what we're looking at here is I said, hey, show me the loan. Let's say the property is valued at $300,000 and I owe $300,000. So I don't want any equity at the start. Now, if you're an investor, most likely you're going to have some equity from day one when you buy the property. Otherwise, maybe you're buying for a different reason or you got 1031 money or something like that. But most of the investors I know are going to buy it, fix it up and have some equity in there. But I just said I don't want to play the equity game from the get go. I just want you to show me what it would be if all things were equal at the start. So the loan is 300, the value is $300,000, 4% in annual appreciation, and what we're going to see here is the green chart, is the property value over time. The dotted yellow is the loan balance over time and the other yellow kind of coming up is our equity over time. And so in five years, if I bought this property for $300,000, it is now worth just about $365,000. Okay, so gain 65 grand in equity just by holding it.
Speaker 1:And again I'm looking at this going hey, if I can just buy one of these a year for 10 years and then start selling some off, what is that going to do for my life? It doesn't mean I have to go out and do a hundred doors. What if I just do one door? That I could break even on rent every single month and all my expenses and all that stuff and then sell it off in 10 years, 15 years, whatever my goal is, but just to play around with some of this stuff, in five years the loan balance is $258,000, almost $259,000. So my equity is $106,000 in five years. So again, $100,000 deal that you could literally be all in. So, again, $100,000 deal that you could literally be all in. You could have no equity from day one, and just in five years of holding the property, you gained over $100,000. So for you, if you're sitting there going, man, I need cashflow, but I'm not looking to retire for another five years and you need six figures of income, right? Here's a great opportunity to do this. Start buying one or two properties a year and let the tenants get you there. If we look at this at 10 years, we have an equity now of $243,000. So the house is worth $444,000. Again, we bought it for 300. We gained 144, just in appreciation. The powerful thing, though, about this rental is the tenants are paying down your debt, so now you only owe 200,000. So you're creating just that spread by keeping this property over the long-term. In 15 years, we have $422,000 of equity from buying this one $300,000 property. It's now worth $540,000 and we only owe $117,000 on it. And then, obviously, in 20 years, we don't owe anything in this scenario, but the house is worth $657,000. So doubles in value more than doubles in value in 20 years. Pretty incredible stuff, right? So what I wanted to see next is okay, that's really cool, kind of confirms. Just buy and hold as many properties as I can get my paws on and make sure that they're still going to break even or cashflow. A few bucks Got it, but that's at 7% interest rate. Man, what if that interest rate comes down? I thought if I could get it down to 5.85, what does that do for me? How much more equity do I have? I would probably have a ton more equity if that interest rate was down quite a bit. So I reran the same scenario. This actually opened my eyes quite a bit. Appreciation doesn't change at all, obviously in this scenario Same loan term, same AM schedule. The difference is I save about 200 bucks monthly on my cashflow. So I'm going to gain about $200 of cashflow every month from this new rate. But I in five years, uh, in in, um. What was it here? This, this gap. Here we were at 400, I think we were at 240,000 or something at 10 years. We're at 251,000, at 430. I think we were on four, 20 or something like that, and we're only at 430,000 in 15 years. So the equity gain isn't that much bigger. If the rate drops by a point and an eighth, it's pretty crazy. I don't know why. I thought, man, I'm going to have so much more equity and it's going to get there quicker and all that sort of stuff, but it doesn't gain that much. The biggest difference is I'm just saving 200 bucks a month or making $200 more a month in cashflow by having that lower rate. So it's not a huge difference on the equity gain. So if you're an equity buyer, if you're looking at these charts and you're saying, yeah, man, I want long-term wealth, I want to be able to sell off some properties in 10 years and be able to live off of the sale or the refinance, pull out a bunch of cash, keep the property, start the clock over again, but just keep the property and take a whole bunch of this cash off the table. Whatever the case is for you, if you're not looking at it from the cashflow perspective, the interest rate isn't going to change that much. This doesn't dictate very much when you're looking at your overall wealth of the property. So hopefully this has been helpful for you guys. Again, if you're listening to this, I hope I did a decent job of explaining these graphs and charts and at least painting the picture for you. My take on this is obviously buy real estate and wait. Don't wait to buy real estate. It's actually costing you money every day that you're not buying real estate, no matter what the interest rate is. It's really crucial for you and your family's legacy If that's important to you, to start today. If you haven't started yet, if you are currently buying real estate, maybe for you this is the wake up call for 2025 to go out and accelerate your goals and really put the throttle down in 2025. If everybody else is sitting on the sidelines because of interest rates and they're not being aggressive, that's a great time to get in there and scoop a lot of properties up right now, while people are sleeping and waiting for these rates to come down Again. It's not going to change that much on your overall wealth whether you get a 7% rate, an 8% rate or a 5.85% rate. It's going to be very similar when you're looking at your wealth in five or 10 years. And if you look at it, we have a couple of properties we just had out to our buyers list at Wisconsin Discount Properties and some of the feedback on some of the rentals was ah, there's a lot of little stuff to do to it. And when I look at the numbers, then I don't know if it makes sense In five or 10 years. You're not going to care that you had a lot of little stuff. You're going to be like, oh goodness, oh yeah, I remember I had to do all this stuff when I first bought it and there was a couple other things that happened in between. But, wow, I'm really glad I bought those properties when I did. And again, it doesn't matter what happens, as long as the market appreciates which we looked at all the demand charts today and all of the indications are showing we have a huge supply demand gap there. A lot of demand, not a lot of supply, and we're going to get more demand over the next four years, maybe even a little bit more than 4% annual appreciation in our market if you're in a decent area, because we're going to have a lot of those first-time homebuyers looking to get in there and scoop up some properties. So hopefully this has been helpful for you guys. I would love some feedback on this. This is the first solo episode that I've dropped. I hope it's been good. If you can reach out to me, just send me a message on Facebook, corey Raymond, or go to our website Wisconsin Discount Properties. Drop me a line on there. Just do the contact us to say, hey, man, either enjoyed it or I thought this was terrible, or hey, this would be better if you did this. I'd love to continue to bring value to you guys and hopefully help you in your investing journey. If you're new to investing at all and you want to invest in Wisconsin, we would love to have a conversation with you myself or somebody from our team. So same thing. Just hit me up or go to wisconsindiscountpropertiescom, fill something on there. Or if you're out of state, you already invest and you want to turn it up and you want to get a network here in Wisconsin, we'd love to connect you to some lenders, some property managers. Whatever we can do to help you grow your real estate portfolio here in the great state of Wisconsin, we would love to help you out with that. So thanks for tuning in. Guys Appreciate you being here and being a listener. Hopefully we will see you on the next episode and if you enjoyed today again please share it. Sharing is caring, my friends. Other than that, guys appreciate it. Have a great day and look forward to seeing you guys on the next episode. Thanks again for tuning in.
