The Wisconsin Investor
Each week, we bring you interviews with some of Wisconsin's top real estate investors who share their tips, tricks, and strategies that you can implement right away. This show is dedicated to helping Wisconsin real estate investors elevate their game. Along with interviews, I'll also dive into hot topics in solo episodes and feature experts from various real estate sectors across Wisconsin.
The Wisconsin Investor
Flips, STR's, Long Term Rentals: From 9-to-5 Job to Real Estate Power Couple with Joey and Krissi Shueler
Unlock the secrets of real estate success with Joey and Krissi Schueler, a power couple who have mastered the art of flipping properties and managing rental portfolios. Hear how Joey transitioned from a traditional salary job to a thriving career in real estate at Wisconsin Discount Properties, and learn how Krissi's interest in property flipping grew as she realized its potential to surpass her full-time job income. Together, they share the invaluable support they provide each other in their entrepreneurial journey, while introducing you to their charming dogs—a treat for those catching this episode on YouTube.
Explore the dynamic world of real estate investment financing and strategy as Joey and Krissi reveal their approach to managing a diverse property portfolio. They share the strategies that led to a 30% increase in bookings for their Algoma property, even as the short-term rental market cooled post-COVID. With insights into the BRRRR strategy and creative financing techniques like ARV loans, the Shulers offer a blueprint for recovering invested capital and achieving real estate success with minimal financial risk.
Discover how leveraging home equity and efficient time management can transform a real estate investing journey. Joey and Krissi discuss their quick decision-making processes, the importance of outsourcing property management, and the balance between self-management and hiring help. Reflecting on their journey, they highlight the challenges of starting in real estate and share their evolution as a couple, strengthened by trust and efficient workflows.
To connect with them check out their French Bulldog breeding business at https://bleusteelefrenchbulldogs.com/
Hey everybody, welcome back to another episode. Today I've got my good friends Joey and Chrissy Shuler on the show. Joey Chrissy what's going on today, guys?
Speaker 2:How's it going, hey?
Speaker 1:It's going well. It's going well. I'm looking forward to this conversation. So a couple of reasons I wanted to have these two on today. Number one there are a couple doing real estate. So I love that. For those of you that don't know, my wife Carrie and I started our real estate business together and we went through a lot of learning and growing we'll say to become a tighter married couple through real estate. We'll call it that a lot of learning and growing. So I'm excited to dive in a little bit of your dynamic there today. And then for those of you guys that aren't on our buyers list, at Wisconsin Discount Properties, joey's one of our longest tenured employees with the company and he's been in looking at Joey. You've probably looked at how many houses now in your career with us.
Speaker 2:Oh gosh, that's honestly a good question. I would say definitely over, probably three to 500.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I was thinking 500 is probably the number, yeah, yeah. So Joey's got a lot of experience just looking at properties. There's a lot we're going to dive into today. On top of that, if you guys are watching the YouTube video, they also have a special guest with them. Let's see who. Who did you guys bring to the episode today? Can we give her a little, a little came. Uh, oh, who's this one? Oh my goodness, hey.
Speaker 2:So what for?
Speaker 1:those of you listening on the uh audio versions of this. They have a uh a dog breeding business and, uh, I'm sure we'll get into that, but they're still the cutest dogs. They're really hard to not buy like look at if you guys are watching the youtube you guys don't want to buy.
Speaker 3:Oh my goodness.
Speaker 1:And I'm sure we'll get into that, but they're still the cutest dogs. They're really hard to not buy. Like, look at that. If you guys are watching the YouTube, you guys are going to want to buy. Oh my goodness, look at that. They're so cute. So all of you guys listening on Spotify or Apple are now going to have to go to YouTube, just to see those little cams of the dogs we just got.
Speaker 1:But why don't you guys with us? There was something that drew you, maybe, to joining the company. Did you guys have an interest in getting into real estate prior to joining our company, and how did that start? Talk about that a little bit.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I got introduced to real estate, probably in increments of about every four to five years. It was actually kind of weird, and this started back since I was probably 18 and got introduced. People would reach out, wanted me to become a realtor, or I first learned about hard money probably in my younger 20s and that was probably the next time. I think it was 18. Then another five years and then, uh, travis fonder uh, nice guy, lovely guy, but he actually had reached out to me as well. We talked about it. Um went and looked at a bunch of different real estate brokerages and interviewed at a bunch of different places. I just couldn't grasp the idea of just going straight. Commission.
Speaker 2:That was the hardest part about going from a salary job or something like that and going straight commission. So that was the hardest pill to swallow. And then one of my friends who is currently now on the buyer's list and has bought some properties from us buyers list and has bought some properties from us. We reached out to I think it was Bill to talk about hard money and I really didn't understand it and I you know when you hear hard money, you know I was. I was figuring you're going in an alley, you know and somebody's going to take your kneecaps out.
Speaker 1:You know you don't pay it back, you know.
Speaker 2:So I really didn't get a full understanding. And I remember doing your interview and applying for Wisconsin Discount Properties, fox Cities Home Buyers, and that was probably the fourth time that I got introduced to real estate. And, chris, did you remember what? What you told me?
Speaker 2:no well, it sticks out to me. So she said you know why? Why not try? She's like you've been, you've had this happen every so often, every couple of years. She's like, why not? She's like you can always go do something else in sales. She's like why not try it? You know why not take the jump? And I was like, yeah, you're right. She's like, why not try it? You know why not take the jump? And I was like, yeah, you're right, she's like, otherwise you're going to regret it, and I'm glad I did.
Speaker 1:Yeah, women usually know better than we do, right, joey? Yeah, yeah, chrissy, what about you? Like your thoughts when we talk about just real estate investing? Now let's talk about that a little bit. I want to shift over to you a little bit. Were you at, did you have any interest in it prior to Joey kind of getting hooked up into the real estate industry? Or did that blossom once he was in and you kind of got sucked into it, so to speak? Or how did your interest in you guys building a real estate portfolio and a real estate business start?
Speaker 3:Yeah, I mean I think, just like everybody always has a little interest always in real estate, definitely always interested in real estate agent but it definitely blossomed once Joey started and then talking to you and Carrie and then basically realizing you know how much we could profit off of one or two flips compared to what I made in a year. Yeah, so that was the big step to just quit my full-time job and dive in headfirst.
Speaker 1:So that was the aha, when we just sat down. I remember we sat down, we did some math and we were just I think it was Copper State right and we were talking about just hey, what do you make in a year? Let's break that down. And then, after tax, after we looked at that, I think that was a big piece of it. Now I want to get there with the tax thing with you guys, because I think that's a really what you guys have A lot of couples can utilize going forward. So we'll tease a little bit to hang on and listen to a little bit more of this conversation. So when did you, chrissy?
Speaker 3:when did you go quit the job and go full-time real estate? Full-time, I think 22.
Speaker 1:Okay.
Speaker 3:I think, is when I quit my job in February of 22.
Speaker 1:Wow, so you're coming up on three years.
Speaker 3:Yep Out of the corporate shackles.
Speaker 1:Okay, good Now, joey, don't get any ideas here. All right, let's talk a little bit. What does the business look like right now for you guys as far as, like, talk about the units you guys have, what does the unit mix look like? How many flips on average are we doing, like that kind of thing, just to give our audience a little bit of an idea of what the business side looks like for you guys.
Speaker 3:Sure.
Speaker 2:I don't know who wants to answer.
Speaker 3:Well, I think we're averaging around six to seven flips a year, okay, and then trying to buy trying to, yeah, is the trying to buy units? Um, I think we were averaging around four to six a year, okay, give or take a few, the one nine unit, and then that was a couple years ago. But then, yeah, this year was a little rough. We were just kind of tied up, didn't really know how to get extra funds to be able to put money down, but we finally figured that out, so hopefully being able to buy more in the future.
Speaker 1:Okay, cool. So how many units total do you guys own now?
Speaker 2:I think, uh, I think we're close to 20 doors. Yeah, okay, Sweet All together. We did just pick up yeah, we got picked up one more, which will be a vacation rental, just recently and I think this year we will have done the most technically what close, most flips closed in this year.
Speaker 1:Okay.
Speaker 2:Which I think will be like six or seven.
Speaker 3:Yeah.
Speaker 1:Cool, okay Now of the ones that you guys hold. So, of the 20 units, are those all long-term rentals or do you have short-terms in there besides? The one you're closing Half and half, half and half, okay. Now is one of those properties. Is that? You guys talked about an Algoma property that you bought? Right, that was a nine unit.
Speaker 3:Yes.
Speaker 1:Right, talk about that. Is that all short-term or did you guys do a mixed blend there of long-term, short-term, or what is that property currently operating at?
Speaker 3:It's currently a mixed blend. We have seven short-term and two long-term. And the two long-term units. They're just good tenants, we don't seem. I just kind of wanted to see how the short-term would go first, to see if we could actually fill all seven units in one summer, which we did. But we.
Speaker 2:We inherited the tenants too, so we didn't we?
Speaker 3:didn't place them, we inherited them and they just never left right anytime. If they decide to leave, we'll turn that into a short term rental.
Speaker 1:Okay, yeah, so a lot of people in the last year that I talked to are kind of down on short-term rentals. You know it was really I talked to are kind of down on short-term rentals. It was really hot during COVID. I mean everybody wanted a short-term rental and then it kind of cooled off in the last year or two. What have you guys noticed with your short-term rentals, like occupancy-wise, average daily rate, that kind of stuff? Did you notice a dip in that? Is it still super profitable? Talk a little bit about what you guys are seeing in your short-term rental stuff.
Speaker 3:I mean it's definitely increased. We probably increased like 30% from last year. Wow, I mean it's booked nonstop. What?
Speaker 1:do you think?
Speaker 3:Nonstop, except like winter months, just because it's the slow season. But it's close to Door County. People like to vacation. It's across the street from a winery.
Speaker 1:So what do you think caused the uptick? I mean, was it anything you guys did to cause the 30%, or was it just straight market?
Speaker 3:I did hire a cleaning crew this year. Okay, I was able to open it faster, turn around faster Okay, I think that was a huge help. And then we did work with the Coast Guard this year, so they filled up the whole building for about a month and a half in the summer. So they had to pay for the full price every day, but yeah that's amazing. That was a good one. That was a good one.
Speaker 1:That was a good find. Is that just from? Was that just from networking, or did they approach you or how did?
Speaker 2:that they approached me Really.
Speaker 3:Yep From, I think, airbnb too, and we ended up somehow finding a way to get in contact, where she Googled. I was trying to explain to her how to look me up, but without saying look me up.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, yeah, for sure, For sure. Oh, that's amazing. Now, when you guys bought that, did you guys utilize the BRRRR strategy, or what was the whole financing strategy with this property?
Speaker 2:We did BRRRR it. We did end up BRRRRing it in the end, but we did. There was a special kind of finance program that one of the local lenders had. That was an income approach, so it got it got. Basically, you know, the value of the property was based on the Airbnb income that you could get at that point, and then what we did was essentially just we burned it out?
Speaker 1:Yeah, we did. So. Did they lend you the full value Like was it an ARV loan up front?
Speaker 2:They didn't lend the whole. It was a whole, you know they. They had the whole back on it and then we had the draw system on it, so we did have to draw on it. But yeah, they, they did the whole ARV amount.
Speaker 1:So you didn't you didn't have to bring any cash to the table, for this is what you're saying.
Speaker 2:Well out. So you didn't, you didn't have to bring any cash to the table for this is what you're saying. Well, it was kind of two because, remember, we we bought it with Bristol and then we had, then we had it refinanced with premier and then two different lenders in the area, but that's when we went to the second lender, that is when we got the income approach on it. So when we originally bought it, yes, we, we put down a decent amount of money, then we did the BRRRR and then we got all of our money back out of it, including, I believe, the money that we put down on it. Wow.
Speaker 1:So you guys, you got a free property.
Speaker 3:Yeah.
Speaker 1:I love real estate. Yeah, that's so great. So for the audience that doesn't understand these acronyms, brrrr stands for buy, rehab, rent refinance, and it's a strategy to essentially hopefully have none of your own money stuck into these deals once you're done with improving the property. Arv loan, what we're describing.
Speaker 1:There is some lenders and it's pretty rare, it's getting more rare will come through when they're going to give the appraisal on purchase and you will give them a scope of work. You'll give them I'm sure you guys gave them some short-term rental comps, maybe AirDNA or some of these other websites you can pull this stuff from and then the lender will look at that and say, hey, based off of what the NOI should be on this net operating income, we're going to apply a cap rate to that, which is just a multiplier that lenders, appraisers, buyers, investors use to determine the value, and then they multiply that and that's the value of your property when you're talking commercial stuff. And so then they will lend off of that future value, even though you haven't quite got the rehab or the rents there yet, but it's going to get there.
Speaker 2:Correct.
Speaker 1:Okay cool. So I just wanted to break that down for those newer folks that maybe haven't heard some of these terms or anything like that before. So that's incredible. Now you guys also just pulled a line of credit on this as well, did you not?
Speaker 2:Yes, yeah, we did.
Speaker 1:Talk a little bit about that. I mean, you don't have to get into like who you use specifically or anything, but just talk about the numbers on that a little bit. So I think people can understand how you took a property that was needing some love, right, and you guys put the sweat equity in and then improve the property. You got basically all the money back out. So now you have a free, cash flowing property and then on top of that, what are you doing with it? Tell them a little bit about this.
Speaker 2:This is super cool, yeah, so you know, obviously we were talking about getting more and more rentals and getting more and more doors, and what helps with that? Obviously, lines of credit, key locks, anything that you can use in order for these down payments that most lenders are making you do when you're buying these properties now. So what we did is, you know, after we've had the property for a number of years and you can do this a lot sooner right, we did it on our home house a lot faster. I think we did it within six months of owning it, maybe even quicker. But so what we did is we essentially had the property reappraised at the income approach it actually appraised for 1.4, I think, something like that, something like that and our current mortgage on it is only about 500. So there was the difference. So, right away, we got to unlock about $450,000 of key locker line of credit that we could use on other properties, and then in the next month or two we should be able to unlock another 300 or so on the property as well.
Speaker 1:Wait a minute. Why do you have to wait for the other 300?
Speaker 2:Because something with the board has to approve when it goes over a million lending limit thing.
Speaker 1:Yeah, something like that. Okay, wow, think about that audience. If you are just thinking about getting started in real estate. I mean, these guys have built it. You guys have only been buying real estate for what? Three years, four years, yeah, yeah, and one property. Your equity now, if my math is correct, is $900,000? Roughly.
Speaker 2:Close, close, yeah, somewhere there.
Speaker 1:It's almost a million dollars, you guys, that's crazy, oh my gosh. And you're cash flowing it.
Speaker 3:Yep.
Speaker 1:Like oh my goodness, this is why I love real estate. Tell me about now the tax benefits of this too, because now we're just taking this one deal and this thing is just getting juicier and juicier. So, chrissy, now that I gave the teaser earlier, I want to go back to some of the tax benefits you guys get for owning that property. Talk a little bit about that, because that's a whole nother thing. Joey, you make a healthy income with our company and sales. Unfortunately, we have to W2 you. I wish we didn't, but that means you're going to get a lot of money taken out of your checks, right? So talk about how this property and maybe more specifically, chrissy, you being full-time how that helps you guys tax strategy wise, yeah.
Speaker 3:I don't understand how it works. I don't understand how I get paid from his paycheck. That's all the accountant.
Speaker 1:So unfortunately, Joey Joey, if you want to elaborate on it. I would love to hear how this has impacted you guys on the tax side of things.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, Okay. So basically, what it is, it's a cost segregation, is what they call it. What it is is it's a cost segregation, is what they call it. And she being that she works for our business, so our LLC, she has to put in I believe it's 40 hours, or 30 to 40 hours in our business to be considered a real estate professional. Once you can be considered a real estate professional, then I believe you can qualify for accelerated depreciation on any of the rental properties or any properties that you're holding for long-term and then also qualify I think well, it's accelerated depreciation. I think that's again correct me if I'm wrong, Corey, because I think you know a little bit more about this as well and I think that's what coincides with being able to get basically back the taxes that I pay in and then hopefully, maybe even a little bit more.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I'll elaborate a little bit for the audience here. There's a good episode we did with Jake Callowards from CLA Cliffman Larson Allen. He's an accountant. If you guys haven't listened to that one, go back if you're interested in tax strategy.
Speaker 1:But what Joey's alluding to here is, let's say it's $500,000 is their cost on this property. They take the land value out of that. So let's say the land is assessed at 100,000. Now they're left with a $400,000 cost asset and they can accelerate depreciation. So what? And it's done in whatever year the property's in service.
Speaker 1:So if this property was in service in 2022, the tax code at that time said you can do a hundred percent bonus depreciation on this and what that basically for layman's terms, means. It's about roughly 25% of your costs minus the land. You can just wipe right out of your income. So if Joey makes $200,000, let's just say in a year and he gets 25% of $400,000 as a loss quote, unquote for depreciation in the year, now he's only paying tax on a hundred thousand dollars of his active income, which is wild because typically if you don't have that real estate professional designation, you can only take loss from your rentals on passive income, meaning like dividends from stocks or rental income is considered passive in the eyes of the IRS. So being able to say like you're a doctor out here listening to this and you make a good income as a doctor, you know, maybe a good strategy is your wife becomes a real estate professional, whatever that means for your family and uh, or husband.
Speaker 1:if you are the doctor and you are the female there, husband becomes the real estate professional and now you can buy and hold assets and wipe out all of your doctor income to pay nothing and income tax on your active stuff, which is crazy. So yeah, yeah so that one acquisition is the gift that just keeps giving. That sounds like now you gift that just keeps giving.
Speaker 1:That sounds like. Now you do have to pay that back if you sell it. So there's catches. The government's going to get their money, but there's something called a 1031 exchange, which we're not going to go down the rabbit hole of that today. But basically you can.
Speaker 2:Now we should just phone in Jake, have him come back.
Speaker 1:The only reason I know this stuff is because I've interviewed him like four times to be able to wrap my brain around it. Anyway, it's a great way to mitigate taxes. My theory on that is a dollar today is better than a dollar tomorrow. Inflation your dollar loses value every single day. So I think, in my opinion, take the dollar today and go reinvest that to continue to grow your portfolio.
Speaker 2:But everybody's goals are different, so it depends on your goals, but that's how it's taken and I mean realistically in a property like that that we are cash flowing, we're doing very well on that, we can keep that line of credit open to use for other properties that we can pick up. It really doesn't make sense that you would even have to worry about selling it in the near future, Right? Exactly.
Speaker 1:What has been? You talked, Chrissy, earlier. You guys were struggling getting money for some of these down payments. Is that is the fix that you described? Is that this line of credit, or did you guys find a different avenue to unlock some other funds that have now allowed you to get back in the game, so to speak, on buying holds?
Speaker 3:Yeah, this was the solving of that issue. We just weren't very knowledgeable, I guess, on how to get line of credit that wasn't a HELOC, and then we just looked into it more this year and that's how we kind of figured it out. So if we see a rental unit, we don't have to worry about where you can find that one $200,000. So you can't buy it, even because you got to put your 20% down. So this was this was a huge save.
Speaker 1:Love it, I love it. Yeah, joey, I think you said it earlier lines of credit or HELOCs. I mean if, if you out there listening know anybody who's owned a home in the last four, for like the last four years, they're going to have a ton of equity in their house because of how much the market's appreciated, and so it's a great opportunity to go. If you're struggling like you don't have maybe you don't own a house it's a great time to maybe go talk to your friends or family and say, hey, look, I'm getting into real estate, got an opportunity to partner with me on this. You know, do you happen to have any cash or a line of credit on your house You'd want to use it for and some people are scared off by that.
Speaker 1:Understand, like your house on the line, right, potentially it doesn't go, uh, but once you get educated and you know what you're doing, it's I don't want to say, dummy proof, but you kind of feel like you cheat the system sometimes when you underwrite these deals. Right, yeah, right, yeah, yeah. Now, joey, you you've underwritten, like we said, 500 or so deals. You know what are some of the things that you guys you and christy are looking out for personally when you guys are underwriting it. And how do you come up with that, like those figures or that formula or what? What's been, what's your process been to fine-tune that?
Speaker 2:well, it's kind of a mixture, honestly um wait till one o'clock on thursday for those that don't know, that's our offer deadline at Wisconsin Discount Properties.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I would say. I mean, for the most part, if I'm interested in a property, I will. If it's a rental, I'll do a mortgage calculator on it. I try to figure out what the offer price is, what is my rehab cost per se, and then try to figure out what that mortgage is going to look like with that and maybe some buffer on it and with your taxes and insurance. I put that all in there and I try to figure that out what the mortgage looks like. What can I consider cashflow? What if I do management on it as well? So I've got to factor in that 10% there. And you know, I know there's a lot of calculators out there that you can use to do all of this stuff, which is fantastic.
Speaker 2:I think the key to it is also don't overanalyze it. Don't overanalyze it because if it works as a rental and you're cash flowing something on that, then it's going to work as a flip either way. So if you run into something that doesn't, you know, an extra expense that you weren't accounting for you still have that exit strategy as a flip, you know. So you shouldn't have to worry too much. You know you still as long if it doesn't work for a flip and it probably isn't going to work for a rental, you know. So usually it only goes one way or the other. Yeah, and I think what I do is I run my numbers and then I usually will kick it to Chrissy and I'll have her try to run her numbers too, and then we kind of talk about it and make sure that they both align and then pull the trigger. Really nice, pretty. It's a pretty quick process. Honestly, it does probably takes, if we both look at it. Yeah, it probably takes, like I don't know, 20 minutes yeah, yeah, that's awesome, wow.
Speaker 1:So for those of you listening 20 minutes to potentially just do one deal and put 900k to your your net worth, uh, sounds, sounds like it'd be worth it. Yeah, absolutely, now you guys, it didn't take you 20 minutes when you started to be fair.
Speaker 2:No, no, no no.
Speaker 1:So, like yeah, I was going to say, like, talk about the early days for you guys getting into this, what were some of the struggles as a couple trying to do this real estate business together? And like, what are some of the lessons you've learned now? And if it's better, maybe it hasn't gotten better, but I assume it has if you guys are happy, it sounds like you got a pretty good little system. Yeah, exactly, you got married at some point in this process, while you got started in real estate, so it worked out.
Speaker 1:You guys didn't hate each other enough. But what were some of the early struggles for you guys as a couple? And maybe it was underwriting, maybe it was some other things like talk about some of that and and how that's maybe evolved.
Speaker 3:now to maybe still a work in progress, but maybe a better, a better system. Yeah, I think the hardest struggle for me was trying to do it all yourself instead of being able to hire it out and just letting it go and trusting that it can get done. I mean, yeah, you have to go through your different contractors to see who's going to work and who doesn't work. So we definitely went through that and it's we're still going to go through that. Sometimes somebody is going to be too busy and you have to find someone else, but definitely being able to hire it out. So then I'm already working on the next one that's coming up Wait, like once this one should be finishing. You're already working on the next one that's going to be closing next and just keep it the flow going. It was definitely the hardest struggle, so and I'm still working on it Still have an OCD making sure everything's perfect, but for sure you just have to.
Speaker 3:It's not my house, it looks good, move on.
Speaker 1:It'll sell.
Speaker 3:Get it out the door it will sell, and having trust that it will sell was also hard yeah, yeah and just like yeah, putting your own money down at first. What about for you guys? What about for you guys as?
Speaker 1:a couple talk about that, like the, the dynamics between the two of you. I'm interested to find out how that. Maybe you had to be fine-tuned. If it did, maybe you guys have been pretty pretty, pretty much the same since you started, but how's the dynamic between you two and what were some of the challenges, maybe early on, as a couple, getting into this, this crazy real estate game?
Speaker 2:this crazy real estate game whoever speaks first loses.
Speaker 3:Yeah, way not having trust that I can do it.
Speaker 2:Okay was at first but it was new and he was new, but, yeah, he trusts me now.
Speaker 3:So, yeah, he now has faith I think that was.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I think I was. I was a little micromanaging in the beginning, you know, making sure that everything was getting done, you know things weren't getting missed. And I think one of the big things for me was, you know, she's meeting a lot of the contractors and you know, I just didn't want to see her get taken advantage of by other contractors too.
Speaker 2:You know, and that was a big thing for me I think all the contractors now that we use we all trust, and I think you have enough experience and knowledge to know when they're BSing you. I think you've already didn't we just, you just have one guy that gave you a really high price and then you actually he went with somebody else and then he was like, well, I could have done it for lower, or something.
Speaker 1:It somebody else, and then he was like well, I could have done it for lower or something. It's like why didn't you just tell me that right away? It's like a five thousand dollar difference and like, no, oh, my goodness, that's a big difference. Yeah, yeah. So how did you overcome that, joey? Like what was? Was there a turning point where, all of a sudden, you were like, all right, I gotta be hands off? Did chrissy smack you up a couple times and, and that I think it was a mixture, I think it was a mixture of a couple different things.
Speaker 2:Um, I think once we had, I think, one or two done and I saw the finished product, that's. That's another thing too. When you are doing flips or you're doing rehabs and stuff like that, you see, you use, it looks like you're never gonna see the end in sight, you know, then you get really close to the end and there's all these little tiny things that you got to do to finish it and it can be really frustrating and you're like, oh my gosh, I thought this thing was done. Yeah, um so, and just getting over that and looking at and seeing the final product and just having the faith and, yeah, knowing that it's going to be done she has a way better eye, too for making it look pretty than I do. I can say, okay, I think it needs about 30,000 or something like that. I can't make it look pretty. Cabinets, countertops, colors no, no, I have no idea.
Speaker 1:Exactly, you and I are very similar in that Carrie is a very good designer. I know my role now I'm gonna try. I'm just like yeah I'll just. I just know I'm the finance guy and the underwriting guy and you are. You got it from there, babe yeah yep, exactly the same way.
Speaker 2:I'm like gold. You really want gold?
Speaker 1:yeah, it's gonna look great. Gold is so 90s. All of a sudden, like you see, every flip as you're like oh yeah, these girls know what they're doing. All right, yeah, that's awesome. Um, what does the future look like? Like, what are some of the big goals for you guys? And and what are you doing and maybe you've done it with this line of credit, maybe that was the key, but what are you guys doing to unlock or to to set yourself up for these big goals?
Speaker 2:if you have maybe just continue to I think the line, I think the line of credit really opened the door. I mean, since we did that, we've Well, we're closing on another one at the end of this month and I think we're looking at a couple of these rentals that are coming up here, you know. So I just thought that one, yeah.
Speaker 3:It's like we are.
Speaker 1:That's part of the relationship. We bought another. What honey? What do?
Speaker 2:you mean, but we I think this year 2025, so obviously 2024 is pretty much done, but 2025, I think our real goal is definitely to get some rentals yeah, I would say probably five before the end of the year along with A multi unit.
Speaker 1:But yeah, We'll see what we can find Tough to come by in today's market, but they're out there, people are buying them. They're still there, they're still trading.
Speaker 3:So then we can do the same thing.
Speaker 1:Yeah, exactly, throw another million on the net worth, right.
Speaker 2:Right.
Speaker 1:And what's the purpose for you guys when you're, when you say you want to add some more rentals. Talk about, like, the reason behind why that's important for your guys goals or future, why it's on your radar at all retirement, I guess, just being able to have enough income, I guess, where we don't really would have to work very much.
Speaker 3:You know, probably at that point, get a management company and being able to, you know, withstand our lifestyle without having to do too much work, yeah, besides a few flips in here and there, if we had to yeah, and when all those are paid off or you know. And that's your retirement. Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2:And then you just have just cash flow all the time.
Speaker 1:You know, just swimming in it.
Speaker 3:Yep Swimming in all of this, you know you pass them on. Maybe, if they, Maybe, like seven, should have started a little earlier, yeah.
Speaker 2:Well, I do wish I would have started earlier. Yeah, yeah, but I think that that's another key thing that I think a lot of investors look at. You know the legacy, so to speak, and like passing it on to your kids and now you know, are they going to?
Speaker 3:keep them? I don't know.
Speaker 2:Yeah, but that's up to them at that point.
Speaker 1:Yeah, we see it all the time. I just bought one today from a guy that he wanted to pass it on to his kids and they wanted nothing to do with it. So he's like I don't know what to do now. I don't want it. I'm like I guess I can still buy it. Now you guys said you real quick. Last thing I want to dive you, chrissy, you mentioned something there you self-manage. Now Is that what I heard? Do you guys do any third party management?
Speaker 3:Yeah, we have three units that are with a third party management.
Speaker 1:Okay.
Speaker 3:I don't, I was trying it out. I think eventually we will go back to full-time management. Not really for me, I don't know why. The short-term rental is no problem to me, but the long-term renters are. It's a lot the more you get the yeah, yeah they start. It's just a lot of you know, book work, keeping it up, making sure everybody's paying on time every month, so just might not be my thing I feel like, though% of the problems are only by 10% of the people.
Speaker 1:Right, stats would tell you 80, 20, but 90, 10. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2:Well, in our, in our portfolio, it's usually only 10% of them and it's 90% of the problems. Yeah.
Speaker 1:So you're saying you guys are going to go back to third-party management or you're going to go back to in-house?
Speaker 2:Third-party.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I think we'd go back to third-party.
Speaker 2:We'll start gaining some more units, yeah.
Speaker 3:And maybe keep the ones you like, but I might hand off some of the other ones, yeah.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I was interested to hear from you guys if you are planning to keep them in in-house, because you know, you guys know, my belief is third party yeah yeah, um, until you get to a certain point and I think it makes sense to just hire your own staff to manage them the way you want to manage this stuff. But, um, but you know, talking to you guys a few months ago, it sounded like you guys were seeing some fruit from self-managing or some things that you liked about self-managing, but now it sounds like maybe that soured a little, is what I'm hearing. What was it?
Speaker 2:Was it with the upper?
Speaker 3:lower, it's just. I just don't like doing the showings, I don't like having to drive there and have to go show all these properties, just, and it's just time consuming when I have other things to do.
Speaker 1:Right, that was all. It's tedious.
Speaker 3:Yeah, yeah, I mean you don't have to pay the 10% fee, but I think in the long run might be worth it.
Speaker 1:Yeah, one of the one of the activities we did when we had our mastermind is we we'd have everybody do what's their time worth, and it's a great activity. If you guys haven't done this, if I haven't made you guys do it, um, yet maybe we should do that coming up here in the coming weeks. But, uh, for those of you guys listening, basically it's a very simple activity. You look at something like, hey, a flip, or just the, the process to acquire a, you know, fixer, upper, buy and hold Right, and what you do is you just you know if you're aware of it ahead of time, you document how many hours you stick into that. And then, same thing, if you, if you're not, you can just rough ball.
Speaker 1:Oh, I've got 15, 20 hours into getting the financing, underwriting it, getting the title, getting my property manager lined up, whatever. You factor all that in. And then you look at, like on yours, on that nine unit, for example, right, what you do is, once it's all dust is settled, you look at how much did we profit and you didn't quite profit yet because you haven't realized the gain, but $900,000 are roughly added to your net worth and then you divide that by how many hours do I have in that deal? And when you do that you look at, wow, that time's pretty dang valuable. And then you look at what you got to pay a property manager and you're like, yeah, it's worth it. Here you go, I'll let you guys do this and I'll just go do more of these much higher income per hour activities. You know, managing the flip or whatever you're doing acquiring, usually buying deals and finding money are your two highest and best uses of time for most investors right yeah, I think.
Speaker 2:I think the only other thing that we could look at doing is hiring somebody you know to do the management. But I don't know. I mean, what do you got to pay somebody to do that? Is it going to be similar to what the management company is? I don't know.
Speaker 1:Yeah, we have. We have a manager for our short-term rentals and he manages all the guest communication and manages the cleaners and he cleans some himself and stuff like that and it's, it's. I mean it's been worth it with short-terms, you know, you look at like if you had to pay a management company. Most of those managers are charging 20 to 30% short-term.
Speaker 1:So when you do the math on those, it makes sense a lot of times just to hire your own person, once you get to scale, to do a lot of the management of it. And like you said, chrissy, we found the same thing with our short terms they're actually much easier to manage than the long term. Yeah, like the people are great yep, they're. Once in a while you get a pain in the butt. You know needy Karen that wants a something. You know wants to hit you up every 10 minutes about every little thing.
Speaker 3:Right.
Speaker 1:It's pretty rare. Most of them are great. All right, guys, we're going to wrap this up. This has been awesome. I appreciate all of the information, guys. I think this is going to be one of the most downloaded episodes that we have so far, because I think there's a lot of couples out there in real estate that want to do what you guys are doing. They want to be free from corporate America, they want to have assets that they buy and hold short-term rental, all that stuff. So there's tons of stuff here, but we're going to end it with a little fun. Joey, let's start with you Favorite Wisconsin tradition or what's your favorite place to visit in this great state?
Speaker 2:Ooh, or I didn't know, or question there you can do or we'll let you pick favorite place to visit. Oh my gosh um, maybe I should have started with chrissy yeah, start with chrissy, I got, I got one of my in my mind, I think all right.
Speaker 1:All right, chrissy same question.
Speaker 3:Favorite place to visit, I would say, is Lake Matanga in Cranon. I just grew up there. That's where we would go camping. We never went anywhere else as kids. So once a week or for a week every year, we would go camping there, and it's just nostalgic.
Speaker 1:I just love it love it, nothing like the lakes of Wisco.
Speaker 2:I'm telling you, yeah yeah, uh, I think one of the coolest places that I ever went in wisconsin would be like the apostle islands up in it's. It's pretty far from green bay. You know what is it?
Speaker 1:four and a half five hours by superior yeah it's at the very tip of wisconsin yeah, up by superior there hey yeah, but but that was.
Speaker 2:it's one of the coolest places, just Lake Superior. You see all the shipwrecks, the water is crystal clear, you can do kayaking, go in the caves. I really enjoyed it. I would go up there again. Honestly.
Speaker 1:It's a cold plunge year round too.
Speaker 2:It is.
Speaker 1:It is If you want a cold plunge, you can go over the middle of July.
Speaker 2:There you go, yeah, and it's cool, you see, these old shipwrecks that are there from like the 1800s, you know, and they're in like pristine condition because the water is so cold.
Speaker 1:Yeah, that's awesome. Last thing here, guys if somebody wanted to get ahold of you guys, either to you know, talk about real estate with you, or perhaps purchase one of your, one of your dogs, because you do, you do breed. We didn't even get into that story. I wish we would have, but we ran out of time. What is the? What is the best place for them to find out either more about what you guys are doing on the dog side of things or just talk to you about real estate, probably facebook, I would say okay you can find us on Facebook.
Speaker 3:We got the Blue Steel French Bulldogs. That's our Facebook page, so that'd probably be the easiest way.
Speaker 1:Awesome, cool. Well, we'll try to put a link in the notes here for that as well, guys. So if you want to look them up or see what they got cooking on that side of things, thanks for being on the show today, guys. It's been awesome. Thank all of you for listening to the show, guys. If you enjoyed the show, please share it. And if you want to get started in real estate here in Wisconsin, or if you're looking just to get started in general in real estate investing, go to wisconsindiscountpropertiescom and just fill out the contact us form on there. Somebody from our team will hit you up and we'll have a conversation and see if we can help you take that step into either getting started in real estate or starting to buy here in Wisconsin. So until next time, guys. Thanks for tuning in You'll love it.
Speaker 3:Go to the website.
Speaker 1:Thanks guys.
